Track width?

[Chris_Wilson]

How do you class 3 guys measure track width to determine what's allowed? SCORE rules say you can be 4" wider than stock.

But it's not clear to me how that's measured or even what the stock width is. What is the stock width of a 80-96 bronco and where is it measured? My bronco does not have stock wheels nor stock suspension and both of those alter track width.

Seems like there is a couple inches of fudge there by using different tires, wheels, and ride heights with a TTB "swing axle".

I've considered converting my class 4 F150 to a class 3 but worried it's too wide to meet with the class approval. It's a hair under 84" wide from the outside of the tires at ride height.

[Blanco]

There's No Pick up trucks(F150) allowed in class 3 & The Max wheel base would be 108" are you thinking about swaping a bronco body on to your F150 Frame?
Does it have a wheel base of 108" or less?

As for Track width its measured from the center of the tire ( The same way the factory measures it )
So becareful when adding in different back spacing in to the equation.
Backspacing would allow for some fine tuning of your final Numbers....

[Chris_Wilson]

There's No Pick up trucks(F150) allowed in class 3 & The Max wheel base would be 108" are you thinking about swaping a bronco body on to your F150 Frame?
Does it have a wheel base of 108" or less?

As for Track width its measured from the center of the tire ( The same way the factory measures it )
So becareful when adding in different back spacing in to the equation.
Backspacing would allow for some fine tuning of your final Numbers....

As far as I can tell a bronco and an f150 of the same year are identical forward of the b-billar so I'd just cut the f150 in half and splice the back half of the bronco onto it (much cheaper than building a race bronco from scratch). So it would be a bronco, not a f150. And of course I'd keep everything within the rules but I would not do the project if I had to narrow the front end to be class 3 legal. So I was looking for some guidance on how to tell if my front end is too wide.

The other thing that concerns me is Savage at SCORE has told some guys he will allow them to remove the floor pan and firewall and all stock body below the bottom of the windows for class 3. They did this in class 8 and it led to being unable to enforce the cab/frame relationships so guys started building trucks with the bodys lowered and frames raised to get more wheel travel and now the newest trucks have the frame through the cabs so you sit on the frame rails with your foot pedals on each side of the frame allowing for a much lower truck with more suspension travel and a clear advantage verses trucks with stock seet bodies in the stock locations. I want to race in a class with a stock steel body and a V8 engine. I've done my time in both Stock Full and Class 8 and think Class 3 looks good. But not if it goes the way of the class 8 with the fiberglass bodies that are lowered. Enough rant.

[Blanco]

As far as I can tell a bronco and an f150 of the same year are identical forward of the b-billar so I'd just cut the f150 in half and splice the back half of the bronco onto it (much cheaper than building a race bronco from scratch). So it would be a bronco, not a f150. And of course I'd keep everything within the rules but I would not do the project if I had to narrow the front end to be class 3 legal. So I was looking for some guidance on how to tell if my front end is too wide.

.

According to John @ AutoFab the factory TTB track width is "wheel center to center 65 inches"
How wide is yours?

As for the Class 8's I did'nt know that....Sounds interesting though....
As for the Body questons, I dont know.:confused:

[roach]

cool new website.............hope it does bring some new people to the class.

savage did tell me what to measure as far as track width, i wrote it down somewhere and have to find it. i will post it when i do. as far as body goes, Chris, what you saw with mine is the limit on what you can do. you have to keep the stock steel outer skin OF THE CAB only. you CAN remove all intererior sheet metal to include firewall, roof inner skin, b-pillar inner skin, and you can remove ALL sheetmetal from the B-pillar back. it was quite the task to mount the body in stock location without any of the floor board in place anymore, but it is in factory location. i talked with savage on a number of issues on what i could do and still be legal, so if you have a question, ask.

and just a side note..........

for those who think class 3 is a very limited class, grab the rule book and compare class 3 and class 8 rules side by side. they are almost photo-copy identicall other than the wheel base, the track width limit, and the 4x4 and the rear leaf springs.

i will post the track deal when i find it.

[steveG]

A rules and regulations section would be a good addition to the website.

[Chris_Wilson]

According to John @ AutoFab the factory TTB track width is "wheel center to center 65 inches"
How wide is yours?

As for the Class 8's I did'nt know that....Sounds interesting though....
As for the Body questons, I dont know.:confused:

My prerun bronco is 67.5" center to center and it uses the stock pivot points and stock beams with the lower ball joints moved out enough to correct camber from the taller springs. As the ttb "swing arms" droop down the track width gets narrower so this bronco should be narrower than a stock one so the 65" that John quoted does not sound right. Thus my confusion on what's legal. My class 4 truck is 72" wide center to center.

[Chris_Wilson]

cool new website.............hope it does bring some new people to the class.

savage did tell me what to measure as far as track width, i wrote it down somewhere and have to find it. i will post it when i do. as far as body goes, Chris, what you saw with mine is the limit on what you can do. you have to keep the stock steel outer skin OF THE CAB only. you CAN remove all intererior sheet metal to include firewall, roof inner skin, b-pillar inner skin, and you can remove ALL sheetmetal from the B-pillar back. it was quite the task to mount the body in stock location without any of the floor board in place anymore, but it is in factory location. i talked with savage on a number of issues on what i could do and still be legal, so if you have a question, ask.

and just a side note..........

for those who think class 3 is a very limited class, grab the rule book and compare class 3 and class 8 rules side by side. they are almost photo-copy identicall other than the wheel base, the track width limit, and the 4x4 and the rear leaf springs.

i will post the track deal when i find it.

Ricardo, I know what you are doing is ok with Savage but my point is that it should not be ok with Savage. Comparing the rules between class 3 and 8 perfectly illustrates my point. Have you seen the new class 8 builds from Geiser (Ampudia) and PIN (Juan Lopez) where the frame runs through the cab to increase wheel travel while lowering the truck? There does not appear to be anything in the class 3 rules to prevent this same type of modification even though your build does not exploit this. The problem is that just because Savage told you that what you are doing is the limit does not mean he will tell the next person the same thing 2 years from now. The limit to what you can modify on the body/frame relationship and how much of the stock steel cab must be retained ought to be spelled out in writting in the rule book not something that Savage verbally agrees to for each competitor that asks him.

[Blanco]

just because Savage told you that what you are doing is the limit does not mean he will tell the next person the same thing 2 years from now. The limit to what you can modify on the body/frame relationship and how much of the stock steel cab must be retained ought to be spelled out in writting in the rule book not something that Savage verbally agrees to for each competitor that asks him.
That is a constant that I have Noticed...
It seems to rely on His mood... http://www.thewebwheeler.com/forums/images/smilies/shrug.gif

It needs to be clearly laid out so there is no inturpitation of the rule's Moods.. :rolleyes:

A rules and regulations section would be a good addition to the website.

Your already in it..

Under the forums Title of "Tech Inspection" It states Rules & regulations...

Do you think I should start an additional Form? :confused:

I'm trying to keep C3R as simple as Possible..
Unlike my other web site that has a Bazillion forums & Sub forums.. http://www.thewebwheeler.com/forums/images/smilies/shrug.gif

[steveG]

Nevermind, I didn't see that.

[straightaxle]

Chris:

Do you have a set of the old class 4 rules? I bet they have the same +4" width limit that would match up with the current class 3 rule, and the truck was built to that. As far as measurements, that has always been an issue with all classes that have limits, and vehicles that change dimensions when the suspension moves. Big issue with class 5 a few years ago with wheelbase. In any case, the great equalizers are the wheelbase limit and 4x4 in class 3. A FSB is going to be 105", or 107 with the extra 2" allowed. You can put the frame where ever you want, but you still have to get that 107" wheelbase with 2 driveshafts through whoops made by 125" vehicles.

[retroblazer]

Chris:

Do you have a set of the old class 4 rules? I bet they have the same +4" width limit that would match up with the current class 3 rule, and the truck was built to that. As far as measurements, that has always been an issue with all classes that have limits, and vehicles that change dimensions when the suspension moves. Big issue with class 5 a few years ago with wheelbase. In any case, the great equalizers are the wheelbase limit and 4x4 in class 3. A FSB is going to be 105", or 107 with the extra 2" allowed. You can put the frame where ever you want, but you still have to get that 107" wheelbase with 2 driveshafts through whoops made by 125" vehicles.

I don't have a set of old rules, but I'll see what I can do. For some reason I have an 82" outside number in mind as the maximum allowed. Are you guys planning on doing the 500?

[Anderson Offroad]

Doesn't this say that not even a body lift would be allowed?


""Body must maintain orginal shape, size, configuration and appearance. Additional mounts or parts for body strengthing may be added. Mounting location (vertical, horizontal, lateral) in relationship to frame must remain stock. The measurement from the centerline of thr front spindle to the back of the Bpillar post must remain stock +/- 1" Hoods, trunk lids, fenders and/or bedsides, and doors are required to be in the original stock locations but may be of any material. Dropped hoods are allowed as long as stock profile is maintained. Stock grill assemblies are required.

Must retain stock steel cab. No internal stock sheet metal is required.

Safety glass windshields, sides, and rear are optional.""

[roach]

maybe its just me, but why would you want a body lift to begin with???

[Chris_Wilson]

maybe its just me, but why would you want a body lift to begin with???

Seen body lifts used in Stock Full to clear longer shocks, rule required them to be under the bed.