YOU decide the future of the Class 3 Cup!!

[AngerIssues]

Ok gang, I'd like your input.

I'd prefer current and planned racers thoughts, but welcome any feedback, constructive or otherwise :D


I was able to easily raise over a thousand bucks from sponsors, and T-shirt sales also helped spur the money to be paid back at the Class 3 Cup races. Then the economy hit and we have seen racing take a back seat to other things like paying the bills! :mad:

Anyway, I've read recent feedback on racing costs and various promoter thoughts.

THE TIME IS NOW to determine the future of the Class 3 Cup for next year. Here are some thoughts:

1) Racing sponsors are making their decisions NOW about next year. If we want to be able to make a commitment for the Cup or for our own racing ventures, we need to do this now.

2) I can't be solely responsible for chasing down potential sponsors for the Cup and raising money. I think there is a fair bit we can ALL do... if other people get involved. Several of the Board Members were really great about helping, as was Cam (Blanco). Either we are going to have to put up the Cup money ourselves (at each race or via a membership), or we are all going to have to chip in and go after sponsors together. The Board Members have all said they are comfortable with small side pots... especially if we are racing more affordable venues.

3) Races: We've all acknowledged the rising costs in certain races, and we've all seemingly agreed there are some awesome and cheap races being run in various parts of the country and Mexico too. We need to think about a SCHEDULE that works well to promote our CLASS 3.

4) Lastly, if a "mixed schedule" is NOT the answer, what is??? Do we pick a single venue and go after THAT championship? Would we LOSE people rather than gain them? Who would it be? SNORE? MDR? BORE? SCORE? BITD? MORE? VORRA????

Guys (and Gals), I'm open to feedback. I admit I was affected by the economy this year too... and it affected MY ability to show up and race. With a little luck, I think I have put that behind me, and am ready to do SOMETHING with CLASS 3 NEXT YEAR! WHAT IS IT GOING TO BE???????? :confused:


I will pay out all the money over the next three Cup races, as reported above. Now to think about the future.

[BajaBronco13]

Hey Ken,

Though my Bronco won't be complete until the end of next year I want to say thank you for keeping the Class 3 Cup going. I'm looking forward to seeing some C3Rs at MDR at the end of September.

With regards to sponsorship, what about posting a list of those sponsors that maybe good candidates for a sponsorship proposal. When I ran my mountain bike team back in the mid 90s I was able to pick up a few sponsors so I have a little experience that I can share. I landed a few big mountain bike companies and some mountain bike equipment companies. I'm just thinking what kind of sponsors would be attracted to Class 3?

Here is my short list:

Tequila companies: For the baja connection
Beer companies: not sure who but maybe worth looking into
soft drink companies (not energy drinks, those are all played out but again a smaller company)
Sunglass companies like Black Flys (smaller companies that don't have the exposure yet)
tire companies (look at pit ball tires, they've linked up with a few JeepSpeed teams)

I'm throwing it out there, who do you think we can sell the Class 3 Cup to? As most of you racers know that 95% of the sponsors you go for aren't landed but it's the numbers game and you contact as many and see who bites.


Chris

[lucasdalebultema]

Hey all,

Although I don't have a race truck near ready I think I might have some input. I am the assistant captain of a student race team that has to get their own money. We use a sponsorship packet and always carry it with us. I don't know if you have something like that but if you want to look at ours I can email it to someone. The packet describes what the potential sponsor gets and how it might benefit them. Just my two sense.

Lucas

[pigracing]

I think a mixed bag of racing bodies would net the largest exposure to would be class 3 racers.
I may get **** for this but maybe stay away from score and bitd due to the higher costs. Besides the big names and high dollar vehicles from those events are going to steal the show anyways.

Code, mdr, more and don't forget about the new guys Drive at plaster city.

[wiley-moeracing]

I agree, lets help ourselves by helping the smaller race organizations and run with them next year. Maybe not as exciting as the baja 1000 but a lot of fun anyway.

[Blanco]

I agree, lets help ourselves by helping the smaller race organizations and run with them next year.
They probably would be more willing to work with us than the big names. http://www.thewebwheeler.com/forums/images/smilies/m2c.gif

[azdirtworx]

hey everybody.. were still kinda new tothis class 3 thing, but it looks like a cool group and a fun class to race in.. I sure would hate to see this go away or anything...I am not real familiar with the smaller race sanctions, but what you all are saying makes sense,and whatever i can do to help, feel free to give me a holla. will do the best I can to help out....

[DraVen]

well i know vorra runs up here near Sac i would probly do a few of there races my self but back to the topic if yall could get me a cup plan(outline?) or some thing, down the street from me is a Budwiser depot/corprate building and the other direction for me is the Coca-Cola distribution location for all of Nor-Cal and Central Cal. with there corprate offices as well. I can talk to Monster Energy(they are one of my mountain bike racing sponsors) and see if they want to get involved.

[Grimm]

Our racer will not be ready until hopefully the Mint 400, but being on the east coast makes it even harder on us. I would like to see a mixed bag of races, although I don't know much about any given sanctioning body. I know we would like to race in one or two of the SCORE races, as that was what we were originally building to race, as well as BITD. The money factor for those races is starting to get out of our budget and will limit how many races we can do a year.
So having the cheaper races in the series is definitly a great idea, however, I still would like to have a long race if you know what I mean. I don't want to substitute money for miles. A 250 race is great if it is a true 250 mile race for our class, not cut in half to 125. If I remember correctly, the San Felipe race was a total of like 108 miles or something for Class 3, thats not gonna draw us in.

We will be localized out of the four corners region of Colorado, so a race in Arizona, or Vegas, is more likely to get us in than one in Cali. , but thats not saying with enough planning we won't do it.


What will happen with all the membership fees for the various sanctions?Thats a lot fees in its self when you add them all up.

A good beer sponsorship could be Schlitz. Remember that beer? They are making a nostalgic come back. " The beer that made milwaukee famous." They are promoting it as a true mans man beer. Might be a good fit.

We will likely only be racing two hopefully 3 races next year, we'll see how the $$$ holds out. But looking forward to it anyway.

[3amigo]

my build in now on its own wheels. It WILL be ready for the '09 season.

Here is the deal with the cup, as I see it. I don't want to see any score or ditd races in it.

I can run the whole B.O.R.E. season including logistics for less than what the Primm entry fee was! If I have to choose a whole season of racing or 150 miles of S.C.O.R.E. I will take the season every time.

The other smaller sanctioning bodies have similar price structures.

I would like to see a 4 race season that pics a good race from BORE, MDR, MORE, SNORE, etc. and use them as the series.

I would love to run V2R or the 1000, but if I have to make it the only race I do that year to pay for it, it isn't going to happen.

What I would like to see happen at the bigger races is some of us come together and form teams and share costs. Two or three of us could go in on V2R or the 1000 and still get our fill of driving, this way we would actually be out there, racing instead of dreaming about it. I think it would be great fun to team up with Ken or any one else to do a big race, and then fight it out head to head at a smaller cup points race.

To make the cup viable and to make it something a sponsor would look at we need to turn out racers. We need some broncos, and some jeeps, and some chevys, toyotas, even an isuzu. Class 3 is a poor mans class, oh sure you can spend a lot of money on a 3, but the all the rigs I see here and the rigs I see being built are all very budget minded. Look at the grand champion Moss boys, their truck is a study in modesty. It works and it is sustainable. The FJ was a publicity stunt as I see it and I doubt we see it raced seriously again. Trucks of the FJs ilk are not the sole of the class and we should not try and make it that way. We need to live within our means, so to speak, and work to build creditability.

Ken, and the others who have put in so much time on the class 3 cup, I say thank you. For me to be able to comit to the cup and support it the way it needs to be supported I need the entry fees to be in hundreds of dollars and not thousands.

[gunit]

My class 3 will be ready for the 2009 season. (even if it kills me).

My view on the races is this: I like being part of the larger races and I plan on racing the these races: Parker 425, Baja 500, Vegas to Reno and the Baja 1000 even if not part of the series.

Whiplash racing here in AZ has the Snowflake race which I usually attend and they have announced that they will have 400 mile race in western AZ and are trying to bring back a Mexico race too. These are interesting and not too expensive and they have negotiated TV coverage for their races.

One thing about sponsorship money, the big races get the notoriety and media coverage that sponsors want so a mix of big races and fun affordable races is probably the best compromise.

I would love for this class to grow and have good turnout at the events so I appreciate your efforts to promote the series.

[azdirtworx]

were hoping to have ours ready for the 09 season.. I agree with 3 amigos, but then see where dave comes from, with the publicity... hopefully we can all somehow come together somehow to resolve this... the snowflake race was pretty dang cool,and from what i have personally seen, the smaller sanction races are more fun to watch anyway... I sure would rather hit up the parker race rather than goto laughlin anymore myself... just my .o2

[straightaxle]

By the way, the FJ has been sold and shipped overseas.

Ken is correct about the sponsors setting up for next year now. By the way, thanks again Ken for keeping after this.

I can't say for sure what we are going to do next year, other than to say that it has taken a lot out of us this season between the number of races, the DR implosion, the extra costs sprung on us at the last moment, the sponsors cutting back, the wishy washy contingency system, and the outrageous race and support truck fuel prices. I will say we will not do it like we did this year, the crew and my wallet are burned out.

[gunit]

This is a proposed new race here in AZ. This flyer is just a proposal. I am sure that we could get the promoter to create a class for us.
Read it and lets hear what you all think.


2009 Quartzite 350 Quartzite, Arizona January 10th & 11th, 2009

Whiplash Motorsports invites you to the first annual Quartzsite 350, the first race of 2009 Whiplash season. This is the closest race to California and Nevada in our series. Just 233 miles from Los Angeles and 116 miles from Las Vegas!!! This is the first off road race of the year! You’ll be fat and happy from the holidays and you’ll be wanting to go racing! Test your equipment early in the year or join a new exciting series!

Whiplash has a 60 mile course that goes right through the middle of Quartzsite Arizona and then out into the mountains north of town back around town, under the I10 Highway two times and starts and finishes in the Quartzsite Rock Quarry Gauntlet! The main pits will be situated around the rock quarry gauntlet with great viewing, camping and fun.

The course consists of blazing fast roads, slow technical mountain passes, long fast sand washes and the best off-road desert roads Arizona has to offer. Check out the town section below! I’m not kidding we go right through town, just like in Mexico!!!

Race Specifications:

The race will be Saturday afternoon. January 10th, 2008
The race will start at 2 PM and finish at 11 PM (9 hour time limit)
The race will be 360 miles (6 laps). 60 miles per lap. You will not be allowed to start another lap after 10 PM because, like I said, we are running right through the town of Quartzsite! How cool is that!

Starting positions will be determined by draw, but there will be class grudge matches in the gauntlet on Friday evening. Two cars will start at a time,. They will do one or two laps and times will be kept. The winner will start in position 1 of each class and receive a free entry!
The drawing for this event will be held on SUNDAY, JANUARY 4th, 2009. It will be broadcast live on www.youtube.com/whiplashtvshow You must be pre entered by January 2nd 2009 to be in the drawing.

[azdirtworx]

f ya! im there, dave, does this interfere with the parker race?? anyone know?

[gunit]

The Parker 425 is the first weekend in February.

[azdirtworx]

sweet..thanks dave.... the man always on top of things round here!!!! :D:D:D:D:D

[AngerIssues]

The Parker 425 is the first weekend in February.

It's interesting to see the different views... my personal thoughts on Parker are; with the IRC, install kit, and BITD prices, this will be a 2000 dollar (plus) race. It's right there with SCORE (I'm not saying this is bad or good... just very comparable). I LOVE the town of Parker, just not the costs of BITD any more.

I think I'm hearing, and tend to agree, that we need a nice mix of bigger, well-known races, and smaller cheaper races. How do we handle this? Have like 8 or 9 races and you have to choose which 4 or 5 you run ? What I DON'T want is someone who can afford to race all of the races in the series - just go out, run them all, pick their best finishes, and therefore win the series just because they have a bigger wallet (assuming we have a series).

Regarding the sponsors and being associated with the more well-known races... Please don't take this wrong, but there is a certain ego "drive" associated with that. I've been there too, so I'm with ya. When you have been racing your car and paying the bills for a few years, you might (as I have recently done) determine that what is more important is the FUN, comaradarie (sp?), and COMPETITION. To me, if we had 10 guys show up for ANY race - no matter what the race is called or puts it on; THAT is cool... THAT is what we need. We need to have other people saying - WOW, THAT IS A CLASS I CAN AFFORD TO RACE, AND LOOK HOW MUCH FUN THEY ARE HAVING RACING AGAINST EACH OTHER... (you don't have to spend 2500 dollars for 150 mile race to achieve this).

It's just my two cents...

so... MOSS BROS... what do you WANT to do; other than to say you won't do THAT again?? Some of us are looking up to you guys to see what direction YOU want to take. I think it sucks that we stand by and watch you race against one or two other cars... and I expect you agree.

Should we vote and elect 1 ELIGIBLE race from each series that will qualify for Class 3 Cup points, and cap how many you can run? (and try to pick dates that work well with each other??)

VORRA
BORE
SNORE
BITD
SCORE
MDR
MORE
CODE
BITD

thoughts????

(oh, I forgot to address: "yes" the membership fees do suck a little, but MDR doesn't require any, and 35 or 40 bucks each org. isn't that bad, compared to race fees and the cost of gas, etc).

Ken

[Cervantes Racing]

If I may... Catheryn here. I like the idea of making 1 ELIGIBLE race from each series that will qualify for Class 3 Cup points, and caping how many you can run , but we may want to look at what plans everyone has for the next year. It sounds like what was the norm for some in the past may not represent what there plans will be for the next years race season, that is unless the economy takes a sharp upward turn. Do most of the current racers make plans for their race season, or is it on a per come or abitity at the time basis?
And to those who will be starting the new year as freshmen, I would think it better to run the smaller local lower cost races to get the bugs worked out and gain some seat time. So I think everyone needs to decide what races they will or want to race, make them known and go from there. I think the second best option (Kens sugestion being the 1st option that I think could work well) would be if everyone could do 1 series like MORE or MDR, for cost and the amount of races offered in the year, that way if some want to do the more notable races with SCORE or BITD they won't be totaly tapped for funds.??? What is needed is the fun put back into the sport again without having to get a second mortage.

[AngerIssues]

do 1 series like MORE or MDR, for cost and the amount of races offered in the year, that way if some want to do the more notable races with SCORE or BITD they won't be totaly tapped for funds.??? What is needed is the fun put back into the sport again without having to get a second mortage.


I've thought of this too Catheryn... it certainly has merit.

Could we all agree on ONE series to run though? We know Chupa can't race in the states... we know we have people from Oregon, Idaho, Colorado, Arizona, Mexico.... CAL, CAL and CAL. The list goes on.

Further, sadly, we would miss out on some AWESOME places to race (rather than being stuck in one place like MDR).

I appreciate your input - and all the others.

I'm wide open, but we have to do SOMETHING. HOW DOES THAT SONG GO.... IF YOU CHOOSE NOT TO DECIDE, YOU STILL HAVE MADE A CHOICE!!!!!!

[Blanco]

HOW DOES THAT SONG GO.... IF YOU CHOOSE NOT TO DECIDE, YOU STILL HAVE MADE A CHOICE!!!!!!

Yeah! thats a great song!
As a Bass Player myself, I've always admired Getty Lee. http://bestsmileys.com/bowing/2.gif

[Cervantes Racing]

So I think to start we need to get back to finding out what everyone’s general plans are for the next year. Incorporate some of the those races into the cup series with a few additional options that can work out for everyone involved keeping in mind geography and or monetary ability then as Ken suggested, having several to choose from and cap the amount that count for the cup points. But lets find out which would be realistic for racers in the upcoming year. That being said.....Lets go race already!!!!!!

[Tazz]

We haven't finalized which races were are going to attend yet. I wll say that we are not counting out the score events, more than likely we will do a couple of them.

The crew really wants me to look into racing some of the races in the yerrington area and other nothern Nevada races. Most of my guys are coming from Idaho and Oregon.

If the mint goes again, we will probably have it on our the race list.

Also on the list of races they realy want to do is V2R next year, if its going to be a stage race as the talk is. They have already started working me on not going to SOB if they conflict again.

We've already gone the expense of getting the tracker install kit, so it just the added rental, and the larger fee's of the BITD and Score races that is driveing us to some of the other races.

I would like to make at least 5 races next year, that is about all I can realy make time for. I think the cup is good with 4 races.

I guess that puts us in the realm of not locking the class 3 cup in to one series, but races from different series.

It also comes down to how much it costs to recover from the 1000 and be ready to race again, for which one will be our first race next year.

Also if my sponsors are willing to go the expense of the higher fees, then we will likely base some of our choices on what they will do also.

Dan

[Rocketman]

My vote for a fun race is Vorra Yerington 300 labor day race. I've been going to Vorra races since '93 and this race has always been a fun challenging course..but i'm not racing class 3 cup......yet

[kal]

go racing in m.o.r.e. it's only 200 hundred bucks!!!!!!!

[Grimm]

I just looked over the MDR, SNORE, MORE and Whiplash racing schedules. I'm all for racing in these or other venues. Entry fees appear to be around $500, depending on class even cheaper. I retract my statement regarding Califorinia races, and after mapquest, the barstow races are definitly do-able for us. We still plan on racing in a few BITD and SCORE, but this opens it up for us to race a few others as well (monitarily wise.... time wise is a different story)

[AngerIssues]

So I think to start we need to get back to finding out what everyone’s general plans are for the next year. Incorporate some of the those races into the cup series with a few additional options that can work out for everyone involved keeping in mind geography and or monetary ability then as Ken suggested, having several to choose from and cap the amount that count for the cup points. But lets find out which would be realistic for racers in the upcoming year. That being said.....Lets go race already!!!!!!


VERY WELL said Cathryn. thanks to everyone for their input.

This weekend, I will copy all of the schedules into ONE thread, and open it up for some input and voting. Hell, we can't please everyone.

Who knows, with a little planning, maybe we can put together a KILLER set of races that brings in stuff from each and every promoter, and maybe if get off our butts, we can AGREE to race some of the races and have some fun. When that is all said and done, I'll need some help chasing down sponsors (a hundred here, a few hundred there), so we can have some money to compete for... or it can be all about bragging rights for all I care. Remember, the cup points are based upon how many other racers you beat, so showing up at a race by yourself doesn't help ANYONE.

I will compile all the races I can find and stick them on here, and I hope this will help influence people like Dan W. who are already picking races without our input - boooooo!! hissssss ha ha.

[Tazz]

I hope this will help influence people like Dan W. who are already picking races without our input - boooooo!! hissssss ha ha.


It's why I'm waiting to finalize our list.... :)

[Grimm]

I was also thinking.... what if we just picked one sanctioning body and ran all the cup points races in it like 3 or 4 races. We could run a new sanctioning body each year. Perhaps this year could be SNORE , next be MDR and so on. This would also allow those who want to run in extra races in SCORE the ability do do so just not for cup points. It would be a good way to get everyone on the same page and into the cup, then as we have grown into an established series, we can try to run the pricier BITD and SCORE after a few years of Class 3 Cup. Perhaps Sal would give us a price break if he sees that we are a group of racers with a founded series. Ahhh I don't know.

Perhaps it would offer us some further sponsor benefits by having a full race series in one of these sanctioned bodies?

Just a thought.

[AngerIssues]

I was also thinking.... what if we just picked one sanctioning body and ran all the cup points races in it like 3 or 4 races. We could run a new sanctioning body each year. Perhaps this year could be SNORE , next be MDR and so on. This would also allow those who want to run in extra races in SCORE the ability do do so just not for cup points. It would be a good way to get everyone on the same page and into the cup, then as we have grown into an established series, we can try to run the pricier BITD and SCORE after a few years of Class 3 Cup. Perhaps Sal would give us a price break if he sees that we are a group of racers with a founded series. Ahhh I don't know.

Perhaps it would offer us some further sponsor benefits by having a full race series in one of these sanctioned bodies?

Just a thought.


These are good points, truly. My response however, after spending too much time thinking about this...

1) Location. We have racers from Idaho, Texas, Oregon, Northern Cal, Southern Cal, Arizona, and elsewhere. To restrict us to a single series means that some people are going to "lose". It is SO cool to be able to race a local race... even if this is ONLY one race a year! We raced BORE Jackpot last year - a 45 minute drive. :D. So, if each race team has the opportunity to race a more local race, again, even if only one or two races that are close, it's a huge win for them, and a chance to get THEIR local supporters, teams, and family members out. I'm willing to travel to those sites, if others will come to my neck of the woods.

2) The more important reason, and this is a BIG one to me... is the QUALITY of the races. For those of you who have not had the chance to run the VARIETY of places like (I'm just barfing these out)... Parker, San Felipe, Jackpot, and Caliente. And what about Northern Cal races? ... and CODE races, or Whiplash races. I'm talking pine trees, water crossings, cool little towns, locals who WANT us there. Some of these races are in awesome spots... and NOT destroyed, jacked-up race courses. We owe it to ourselves, our chase teams and families to seek out these cool places and STOP wasting our time in crap-holes like Primm. Sorry, but I'm so burned out on that course, the town, etc. I've probably spectated and/or raced a combined 40 races there over the years, seriously. If I never go back to Primm I'm ok with that.

I guess that sums it up. Let's take our show on the road to local, cheaper races, get some variety, TRY to agree to show up at some of the same races. What we call it, how we organize it does NOT matter to me. What I want is some people to race against in some cool towns, some fun, and an affordable playing field with set rules so we can be competive and drama-free. :):):)

Oh, one more quick thing. We would never discourage anyone from racing a non-cup race... like a SCORE Primm race, for example. There will always be reasons why someone wants/needs to run a certain race. My point is that if they are racing by themselves, vs agreeing to come race with 8, 9, or 15 of us he he... who is having more fun? he he