2009 Class 3 Cup Schedule - INPUT NEEDED

[AngerIssues]

Hi guys,

I am going to edit this later, and complete it, but I have to run. I want to get this discussion started ASAP though. Here is a rough list for now... Some of these are based upon the 2008 schedule as some promoters don't have 2009 up yet. Having said that, it's all about picking races you'd like to see us run. Try to keep the thread focused.

PLEASE INDICATE WHICH OF THE RACES BELOW, OR OTHER RACES YOU KNOW ABOUT ARE DESIREABLE TO RACE.

I'm leaning towards picking 8 races... and having a cap, with a possible drop.

Example. 8 races are "cup" races, you are allowed to race no more than 5 for points, and you only can drop one race if you have a crappy finish. Does that make sense? In the event someone races 6 races, we would ONLY take the their first 5 races and drop that persons "worst" finish.

Also, the 1000 should be point-to-point next year. I'd just have to guess it will be in the CUP... IF so, I probably won't consider any other SCORE races, unless you folks overwhelming tell me there is a standout favorite we MUST do.

I think 8 may be too many, but would allow us to pick one race from almost every promoter, and hit some more local races, thus helping each team out (one in northern cal, one in northern nevada, one in arizone, one or two in Mexico, several in Cal and several in Southern NV). Anyway, you get the idea I hope.

THE MOST IMPORTANT POINT IS THAT IF THE RACERS DON'T AGREE TO START TRYING TO SHOW UP AT THE SAME RACES, WE ARE JUST BEATING OUR HEADS AGAINST THE WALL.

We can worry about "money" later... do we have a membership fee? Do we put up a side pot for each race? Do we get money from sponsors and really push that angle (which I cannot do by myself)

Ken

promoter race name/miles date

BITD - 2009
Blue Water Resort Parker 425 2/7
Terribles 250 - Primm, NV 4/18
TSCO Vegas to Reno (1000 miles) 8/20 3 days staged
Silver State 300, Mesquite, NV 9/26
Fabtech Desert Race, Henderson, NV 12/5


SNORE - 2009
Battle at Primm, NV (250?) 2/14
Mint 400, Las Vegas, NV 3/27
Caliente, NV 250, 5/9
Midnight Special, Henderson, NV? 7/11
SNORE 250, Las Vegas, NV 10/3
Western Desert Challenge (300) 11/7


SCORE - 2008
Laughlin 60 January
San Felipe 250 March
Baja 500 June
Primm 300 September
Baja 1000 November


BORE - 2008
Wendover, NV May
Jackpot, NV 250 July
Ely, NV Aug.
Wendover, NV Sept.


MDR - 2008
Wild Wash 250 Feb
Mojave 250 April
Ridgecrest 200 May
MDR 400 June
California 200 Aug
Lucerne 250 Sept
Stoddard 250 November


Whiplash - 2008 website looks cool but sucks for getting this info out. I will do it later


VORRA site is down right now


MORE - 2008
Course B January
Balls out 250 March
Day/Night 500 May
Freedom 250 July
Chili-cool off Sept.
Holiday 200 Dec.


CODE ?????


(will update more later - gotta run).

[3amigo]

The Mint 400 should be in. It is a big name race and the fees are reasonable.

Lets do a BORE race. I don't care which one.

A Barstow MDR race.

I think that V2R is a viable option.

I'm going to try like hell to make battle at Primm in Feb, wether it is a cup race or not. Lets get a good class 3 showing there!

[straightaxle]

Unless something major happens (ie: pot of gold falls from the sky) , I won't agree to run the entire SCORE season next year.

Some races that sound interesting are:

Mint 400

Maybe some VORRA desert races

Maybe some BORE races

Maybe the BITD Vegas to Reno (Be aware it will be 900 miles, 3 days)

Maybe the Primm (I just had 17 people come out for support)

Maybe the 1000



Yerington really treats the VORRA racers well. I heard that they had 6 heavy metal trucks at the last one.

[Joe Rockhead]

The Parker race is a blast.Lots of fun , unless you get stuck at the pit that is a one way in one way out deal.Pitted for team green when Roesler and Danny Hamel were racing.Stuck there from Friday to Sunday!Trying to remember the name of the place.Maybe its best I forget!
When we raced a couple years ago, we got third pro jeepspeed, with a chase crew of one (me!)

[gunit]

One thing to keep in mind is that class3 IS SCORE, so I feel the group should support SCORE to some extent. If they drop class3 from lack of entries where will we all be?

I think that at least the 500 and 1000 should be part of the schedule. I don't see any reason to run the SCORE Primm race because that course can be run in the other orgs and save money. Laughlin is not the kind of race that is best suited to Class3. I have no problem with San Felipe but if we were limiting things due to cost then it would be my next choice to strike.

I like BITD and I think if we get together so we have 6-8 entries we could approach Casey and have our own class. We could make it a sportsman's class with no payout to save on the enrty fees and have our own side action. The V2R is one of my favorite races. Next year it is a 3 day stage race. I raced the last stage race, the '05 Nevada 1000 and while a lot of fun, it was expensive and tedious. Parker is a great race, it is televised, well attended, easy to pit and it should be considered. The new 300 mile race in NV could be a great race for CL3's mountains, streams, trees and no silt. And I have always liked the Henderson race in December.

I like the SNORE Mint 400 and the Caliente race looks interesting. The Whiplash Snowflake race is a fun little race and the new race should be pretty cool and it's a brand new course.

I really have no interest in racing in the SoCal races that are all on the same clapped out, over used real estate. A CODE race or one in Northern NV could be worth considering.

My suggestion is that the series points be awarded to the best of 4 races and that one race (maybe the Baja 500) be mandatory for everyone in the series race.

So here are my picks (dates are approximate) for an 8 race series.

Jan 9-10 Whiplash Quartzsite 350
Feb 2-4 BITD Parker 425
March 27-28 SNORE Mint 400
May 5-7 SNORE Caliente 250
June 4-5 SCORE Baja 500
Aug 30-31 Whiplash Snowflake 250
Sep 27-28 BITD Silver State 300
Nov 16-18 SCORE Baja 1000

Personally, I only see myself racing 4 races per year and maybe we would be better off just selecting 4 races so that everyone showed up at the same events. My pick for a 4 race series would be the Parker 425 , Mint 400, Baja 500 and the Baja 1000.

[AngerIssues]

good input everyone. I appreciate it.

couple of thoughts... I know Casey would allow us to have our own class, I don't think that is a challenge, but if we are doing our own side-pot and points, why not just enter the safari class and run with them... or sportsman in other venues where we our class is not represented. I don't care if I'm racing against buggies or class 8 trucks in Heavy Metal. It's fun to go run with them, and look at Moss, 2nd of 18 or something in the V2R?

I don't entirely agree about the SCORE thoughts above... but I get your point.

Thanks for putting that schedule together, I will examine later tonight.

I also will only probably race 4 or 5 times...and YES... I totally WISH we could all agree on 4 or 5 races and truly get a GREAT turn-out. I think, however, based upon what I saw this year - there are so many factors... if you only pick 4, and people can't make those specific races (for whatever reason), they don't really have a shot at the points, and are quickly discouraged. For instance, let's just say you have a very budget-minded reno-based racer who doesn't want to race in Mexico, and you have the B500 or the B1000 as one of the 4 or 5 races, he says "screw it", because he doesn't have a shot to garnish enough Cup points at a "win". If however, you give him the option to run a SNORE, BORE, Vorra, and MDR race... and he consistently does well... he might end up winning the Cup without ever raced against someone with a bigger budget who strongly DESIRES to race the 500 and the 1000.

Another example. If someone (Chupa) can't race north of the border, and we only choose 4 or 5 races, but only one is in mexico - they are screwed. I KNOW we can't accommodate every example, but having 8 or so races gives us the ability to spread the love around and gives more options to us racers.

I AM TOTALLY OPEN FOR ADDITIONAL FEEDBACK! Dan W? Wiley-Moe? Chuck? others. Again, the future needs to be decided by those who have an interest in doing this. Otherwise, this falls apart and we end up with 1 or 2 at each race again.

kw

[Tazz]

Tentive plans and Interests

Mint 400

Possibly VORRA/Yerington or other desert races

Possibly some BORE races

Possibly Vegas to Reno, My crew want to do this one. It will either be this one or the 1000

Primm I have to let Score take my $250 somewhere and I'm not making a dry run to SD to give it to them.

If I make a trip to Mexico it will be for the 1000.

It may come down to what the sponsor want between the 1000 and V2R

Dan

[flyinbronco]

OK Guys and Gals here’s my two cents. I know I’m a nobody around here (for now) because I’m not racing YET, but when I am I want to race against the best drivers in our class, racing the toughest courses in our sport and the Score Baja 1000 and Baja 500 are the pinnacle of our sport. If you stopped average Joe on the street and you asked him, “What is the Snowflake 250 or the Lucerne 200 etc” I doubt he’d have a clue. Now if you asked him what he knows about the Baja 1000 or the 500 I’ll bet 9 out of 10 would know exactly what you were talking about. They are our version of the Daytona 500 or the Indy 500. These two races are the ones to win and I don’t see how you could have a Class 3 cup series championship that doesn’t include our sports toughest races. From a sponsor’s stand point a win at either of these two races would mean more to them than a season championship at one of the other less notable series.

We should support the Score series where class 3 started and is still alive today. We should not be racing Safari or sportsman classes, if they don’t have a class 3 (as it exists in the Score rule book) in their series or won’t revive the class for us to race in we should not support that series.

I know Score’s race fees are substantial. I know the logistics of running a race in Mexico are formidable. I know there are race series that charge a lot less to run but if we all want to save this class from going the way of the dinosaur we should race the biggest races each year to gain the most interest and notoriety. I fear that running only in the lesser series races will further slip class 3 into the unknown and its eventual end.

My wish list for the C3R cup:

Score San Felipe Baja 250
Score Baja 500
BITD Vegas to Reno (but only if Casey brings back class 3)
Score Baja 1000

It’s more about QUALITIY than QUANITY.

[Blanco]

Just curious?

Where did jeep speed build its fame?
What series did they start in? & what do they normally run now?

I in no way claiming to know, but I thought what made jeep speed what it is now, was the fact that it was very affordable? (relatively)

[Grimm]

I agree that the 2 big score races need to be in the series. I also think that the longest piont to point race in the US, Vegas to Reno, also needs to be in the series. From then on I really have no opinion. But, I do know that we will as a team, likely not be able to afford more than 1 Mexico race a year for the first few years. We are still building so take this with a grain of salt. I just like to dream:D

[3amigo]

My wish list for the C3R cup:

Score San Felipe Baja 250
Score Baja 500
BITD Vegas to Reno (but only if Casey brings back class 3)
Score Baja 1000

It’s more about QUALITIY than QUANITY.


I don't disagree with you in principal, but you just listed about 40 grand in racing costs.

Listen to what Moss has to say. This is almost the exact schedule they ran this year, and he said he wont do it again. Moss has been the backbone of class 3 for quite a few years and it looks like it was broken this season.

I would much rather race against 6 or 8 class 3 trucks in a "lesser series" and enjoy all that goes with having true competition.

If we want to build class 3 we need to make it look like a fun affordable class. 1450 has gone nuts because of its accesability to new racers and that is the same market we need to target.

If we can get new cars built and racing and bring some new blood into short wheelbase racing by going with less expensive series there will be a natural progression into the big races. Everyone wants to race the 1000, but it sure is a daunting challenge until you have some experience under your belt.

I am interested in hearing what every one else thinks. It is quite possible that I am out in left field on this one, or maybe my wallet is screaming louder than my heart.

[gunit]

couple of thoughts... I know Casey would allow us to have our own class, I don't think that is a challenge, but if we are doing our own side-pot and points, why not just enter the safari class and run with them... or sportsman in other venues where we our class is not represented. I don't care if I'm racing against buggies or class 8 trucks in Heavy Metal. It's fun to go run with them, and look at Moss, 2nd of 18 or something in the V2R?



I believe that the issue with just running sportsman class with buggies, heavy metal etc is this: why do it in a cl3?

I am different than you Ken because I am building a cl3 truck, new from scratch. I selected cl3 because it had many things that were appealing to me. I want to race in SCORE in a class that is more affordable than TT, 1, PT, 8, 10, but not in some crappy little Baja bug or limited buggy with a 1600cc motor. I wanted to race something that looked and sounded like a real truck but cost less. I want to race in the big leagues with the top teams, fast cars, TV coverage and notoriety. Cl3 seemed the most affordable way to do that and while it costs a fraction of what costs to race TT, it is still expensive to race SCORE in cl3.

If I am going to race in one of the smaller series in sportsman class just for fun then I will buy another older race car that doesn't fit any class rules for cheap and go have a good time.

I began racing in an old Chenowth beam class 1 car powered by a Nissan V6 that had been retired from class 1 but didn't fit the rules for any other class so I raced it in Sportsman buggy. It was very fun and very fast and would easily eat any class3 alive. I sold that car for $10,000. So in my view, if you want to race in Sportsman class for cheap don't fool around with cl3!

If we race BITD, we should ask that class 3000 be re-instated and we should set the rules just like jeepspeed does. But we need to do that to promote ourselves and encourage new blood and more participation. Look what has happened in BITD in the new 7200 class!

I am really worried now that I have made a large investment that class3 is just going to go away from SCORE and I will be left with just another run what ya brung obsolete racer. I joined this group and this conversation to promote class3 and that is a SCORE class. I am not trying to be divisive because we all just want to race, but all of you that are thinking about these other low budget options are contributing to the demise of cl3 not promoting it.

This is a Sportsman's class racer:

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/671887/fullsize/600_dirtrix%20rocky%20pt.jpg

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/671888/fullsize/600_p9010084[1].jpg

[Blanco]

Just remeber, This talk is all about the Class 3 Cup & not about about the race santions.....
we can still run all the race's......

This is all about starting something fun for Just class 3. :D

[chupakabras]

we are going to race this weekend,. its pretty similar to the race at JACUME, but well, will see how it comes,.

i will really suggest the CODE race at JACUME,. its cheap, its close to the border, its a unique place,. you will camp there, you will eat what you take, you wont spend an extra dlls but the entry fee, well, unless you buy some tshirts or videos or tacos or stuff like that,. camping, contingency and race at the same place,. you will meet all the racers in a close place,. pretty good place for a class 3 cup race,. class 11 cup race there,. haha, seriusly, it's an awsome place to race, very fun, and SAFE, very apart of the city, thats my 1cent.

[flyinbronco]

I don't disagree with you in principal, but you just listed about 40 grand in racing costs.

Listen to what Moss has to say. This is almost the exact schedule they ran this year, and he said he wont do it again. Moss has been the backbone of class 3 for quite a few years and it looks like it was broken this season.

I can't speak for Don but they ran the entire Score series plus the Mint 400 and the Vegas to reno race. Thats 7 races in one year. Thats a lot. I also don't see them being broken. As the newest member on their team I can say they started strong and they'll finish strong as the Score 2009 class 3 Champions. We all owe the Moss Brothers Race team a big thanks for keeping class 3 alive in Score so that we too can compete in a great series in trucks that we all love.
I would much rather race against 6 or 8 class 3 trucks in a "lesser series" and enjoy all that goes with having true competition.

If we want to build class 3 we need to make it look like a fun affordable class. 1450 has gone nuts because of its accesability to new racers and that is the same market we need to target.

Then why race this class running a class 3 racer. You will be at a disadvantage from the start.
If we can get new cars built and racing and bring some new blood into short wheelbase racing by going with less expensive series there will be a natural progression into the big races. Everyone wants to race the 1000, but it sure is a daunting challenge until you have some experience under your belt.

I am interested in hearing what every one else thinks. It is quite possible that I am out in left field on this one, or maybe my wallet is screaming louder than my heart.



The new blood you talk about is coming, some in 09 and I hope to be in for 2010. I agree that the fees to race in Score are higher than the other series but I still feel you get more bang for your buck there. It will also be easier to get sponsors when running in the premire desert racing series instead of racing in the lesser known races in some sportsman class that makes it difficult to get any wins under your belt due to the different vehicles that run in that group. Many are long travel, light weight cars that unless they break you'll really have no chance of beating them. How could you build a portfolio to present to potential sponsors running in a group thats no where close to what we run. Do you tell them you do it just for fun? The only way I'll be able to sustain a race team for more than a few races will be by lining up a few sponsors and to do that you will need to give them good exposure in the sports bigger races.

[lr3racer]

To my class 3 is about Racing all together,and competing against you all.that's the only way to promote Class 3 .strength by #s . no matter what series we run.

[Cervantes Racing]

I believe that the issue with just running sportsman class with buggies, heavy metal etc is this: why do it in a cl3?

I am different than you Ken because I am building a cl3 truck, new from scratch. I selected cl3 because it had many things that were appealing to me. I want to race in SCORE in a class that is more affordable than TT, 1, PT, 8, 10, but not in some crappy little Baja bug or limited buggy with a 1600cc motor. I wanted to race something that looked and sounded like a real truck but cost less. I want to race in the big leagues with the top teams, fast cars, TV coverage and notoriety. Cl3 seemed the most affordable way to do that and while it costs a fraction of what costs to race TT, it is still expensive to race SCORE in cl3.

If I am going to race in one of the smaller series in sportsman class just for fun then I will buy another older race car that doesn't fit any class rules for cheap and go have a good time.

I began racing in an old Chenowth beam class 1 car powered by a Nissan V6 that had been retired from class 1 but didn't fit the rules for any other class so I raced it in Sportsman buggy. It was very fun and very fast and would easily eat any class3 alive. I sold that car for $10,000. So in my view, if you want to race in Sportsman class for cheap don't fool around with cl3!

If we race BITD, we should ask that class 3000 be re-instated and we should set the rules just like jeepspeed does. But we need to do that to promote ourselves and encourage new blood and more participation. Look what has happened in BITD in the new 7200 class!

I am really worried now that I have made a large investment that class3 is just going to go away from SCORE and I will be left with just another run what ya brung obsolete racer. I joined this group and this conversation to promote class3 and that is a SCORE class. I am not trying to be divisive because we all just want to race, but all of you that are thinking about these other low budget options are contributing to the demise of cl3 not promoting it.

First off I want to say as a member of the racing community how small my participation may be, your post could be take as offensive and/or you come off as being arrogant. May not have been you intention but.....
Sportsman classes of what little knowledge I have I thought were broken into their prospective groups, like vehicles w/ like vehicles. Class 3 would not be with the “crappy little baja bug” class of which I am involved with and many other respected racers. Class 3 300 3000 whatever you want to call it, being run in SCORE BITD MORE MDR is still the same vehicle based off the guidelines that happen to be set by SCORE and followed by the majority of the racing bodies.
If the reasons you are building a c3 are for notoriety, TV coverage and to race with the big leagues maybe you should have considered CORR .A few years back a “crappy baja bug” driver friend of mine Eric solorzano got the cover of Dirt Sports magazine as the driver of the year class 11 (not to mention being in the Dust to Glory Movie) right along with the “big boys” like Baldwin and Post, yes solely running SCORE but look what has happened with the new sponsorship from VW, the classes w/ VW powered engines has taken off.
You mention SCORE as if they are the only respectable outlet for racing c3, yes it is the largest most recognize promoter of off road racing, but to call the other organizations low budget??? What part of off road racing is low budget???? None I have yet to see. I also hope you don’t hold it against the rest of the class 3 field for the desire to race smaller maybe closer to home races and put your investment at risk of being obsolete within a few years, but with class 3 being the original TT look where it’s progression has gone. Power in numbers and the example made regarding the 1450’s is a good one , the class has taken off. It just happens to be called sportsman class, I have yet to see any of those truck racing recently that you could buy for $10K. We all want to and most have raced with the “big leagues”, but some of us are being hit hard and so we take what we can get and are still out in the arena making our appearances when we can. With Ken Racing the Sportsman class w/ BITD, he did what he could with what they had to offer, I don’t think he was slumming because he ran what he had in sportsman. SCORE is out pricing itself for many racers and the big guys are choosing other sanctions as well. I don’t know you nor do you know me and I mean no disrespect, but I felt I had to respond, we are all frustrated and anxious to race interesting, challenging AND fun races without taking a 2nd out on the house and trying to keep true to our respective classes. Class 3 is not the only one seeing a diminishing number of entries or interest. Ken L. you are doing a great job on trying to promote this class and Moss you have been keeping the class alive by being out there as much as you have and performing on the level you do no matter what venue, the rest of the class 3 group keep doing what you can and hopefully more entries are in store for the future of the class and the sport itself. Respectfully submitted, Catheryn

[gunit]

I really was not trying to disrespect Baja bugs, limited buggies or sportsman's class racing. I have raced more in sportsman's class more than any other class both in trucks and buggies, I have owned Baja bugs, 1600's, stock Mini, stock full and class 1 race cars. My brother and I won every Safari/Sportsman's class race in BITD in 2005. Most of the time, this is a class for many types of vehicles so for the most part you are racing against yourself and the course. And I fully realize that no current competitive 1450 can be built for $10,000. or even 5x that. I was just demonstrating that there are many existing race cars available that can be raced in local sportsman's class races and a class3 is not the best choice.


My point is that I don't want to have to race in a Baja bug anymore to race in the SCORE Baja races. There are many facets to racing; one important part is simply going as fast as you can in whatever you happen to be driving, another is to compete against others, another is camaraderie and teamwork these are all good reasons why we race and can be accomplished at any venue.

Another reason is to be part of something larger and one of these things is to race "the Baja" with everything that it entails. It is just not the same to race a 200 mile race around a 30 mile course. It is not the same to attend an event out in the desert where 30-40 rigs show up to race compared to 300-400 race vehicles. The results of the Baja 500/1000 are published world wide, articles are written in magazines and there is television coverage and even movies are made about "Baja" . Tell someone unfamiliar with our sport that you are a desert racer and they look at you funny until you say "like the Baja 1000" and they say oh yeah, I saw that on TV.

SCORE is Baja, and class 3 is SCORE and to leave the important Baja races out of the schedule does not make any sense. I am building my car to race Baja first and other races second.

[Cervantes Racing]

Intellectual chatter, gotta love it. I wish you had presented this view on the matter first instead of the baja bug low blows that really got my attention (I’m over it no worries). I agree that Baja is the ultimate place for most racers besides Dakar of course and SCORE is the most recognized org out there, that being said it should be involved in the Cup schedule. I also agree that running closed course events can be a bit monotonous but can offer a change of pace when the “Baja” type events are out of reach either geographically or monetarily, So the cup should be a bag of it all .Most cases for us it is the lack of crew support on the longer one way races that make them unfeasible so the smaller “loops” allow us the ability to still run with a limited crew. We ultimately race for ourselves against ourselves and the terrain period. Yeah it is nice for someone to know what you are talking about when referring to the Baja races, but at the end of the day when it is you and your truck against the dirt in front of you, it is you and the person besides you that really understand and enjoy the challenging moments along with the crew that is chasing you down with their own stories to tell, no? One day when I grow up maybe I will race Baja!!!!!!! Till then…I’ll be beating the dirt out at the 3rd annual charity event for the tatas!!!! Best of luck with your new rig and your races wherever they make be. So now, which races are going to be involved in the 09 Cup????

[chupakabras]

as GUNIT said.
"SCORE is Baja, and class 3 is SCORE and to leave the important Baja races out of the schedule does not make any sense. I am building my car to race Baja first and other races second."

that always was our goal since we began racing,. we have too many races here, cheap and very crowded races here but no one compares to the ones SCORE does,. we don't have the budget you guys have, still there we manage to ran with score, but well,
really wish the world economy gets better for all of us so we can see as many entrys in class 3 like the good old days, not that old, i mean, like last year, before class 3 cup began,. nothing against it, i'm pretty sure this is part of it,. hope next year to look better for all of us who love off road racing,.
,

see yahh then,. .. chupakabras racing team.

[AngerIssues]

Hi all.

GREAT feedback. Truly. This is why I posted the thread requesting feedback in the first place. I need to know what others are thinking.

I have a lot to ponder, and ultimately, so do those who want to be on the Class 3 Cup Board of Directors... (up for discussion!) ultimately I don't feel we are the SOLE voice of Class 3 by any means.


I do realize that this year we had LOW turnout, not just in SCORE but elsewhere. Had the Class 3 Cup races attracted numerous entries, I would feel more responsible for this. The reality is... a lot of us raced LESS this year, due to the economy. I don't feel the Cup sucked racers away from SCORE (nor was that my goal).

It was stated above, we are not the only class racing less races.

Anyway, I DO appreciate the points above. Just for the record, I LOVE the Baja 500... I WANT to race the 1000. The big difference, I guess, due to MY experiences: sponsors don't generally flock to our class, and I've personally had more fun RACING against others in smaller venues (as of late)... than spending 2500 bucks to race in a SCORE race just because someone has "heard of it".

BTW... the post about the "40k budget" for the races listed above was GREAT. Spot on. I don't personally have it. Do the rest of you? Maybe we need to talk about what our expected budget should be? Hell, maybe I'm in the wrong class!!

Guys and Gals... I will do what the majority thinks is best. I will do whatever attracts more racers.

I don't care if we bag the "Cup" altogether, if that is what some feel is best for the sport. I'm just trying to find a way to get us all to show up at some of the same races...so we can race against more than 1 or two other people. That doesn't help anyone.

PLEASE keep the feedback coming, and lets PLEASE here from more teams!!

good stuff people, seriously.

[venomous]

HI Guys, My name is Gary Stultz. I'm new on here and getting very close to building a class 3. Although, I'm new, here's my 2 cents anyway.......
One of the things that attracted me to this class was the idea of the "class 3 cup" a series of it's own. with it's own mission, separate and distinct from any other race sanctioning body. The cup would have it's own mission. ie. cheap racing, comradery, etc. People can race whatever series they want, it just doesn't necessarily have to be part of the cup. I think we should start by defining the "mission" of the class 3 cup. then we can pick the races that best fit that mission. I am seeing that everyone has a different idea and I'm foreseeing this thing going down the drain because people can't agree and want to do their own thing. Then class 3 disapears.
In my opinion the cup MUST be budget based. I personally am considering this class because I can no longer afford class 8. It seems to me that If money wasn't a major concern than why would anyone want to race in this class. (maybe you just like going slow)
Lastly, Baja is a big deal. I've done it about 8 times. I have every intention of doing it in a class 3, but I do not think it should be part of the cup. Besides that, it is the only race that draws enough competition "without the assistance of the cup"
PS. I don't think people are getting the whole safari concept. we would only be entering that to save money. We would be racing each other... I don't care if casey lets us enter as class 11's.... we are there to race each other and compete for the cup.
sorry, that turned out to be 4 cents......

[flyinbronco]

HI Guys, My name is Gary Stultz. I'm new on here and getting very close to building a class 3. Although, I'm new, here's my 2 cents anyway.......
One of the things that attracted me to this class was the idea of the "class 3 cup" a series of it's own. with it's own mission, separate and distinct from any other race sanctioning body. The cup would have it's own mission. ie. cheap racing, comradery, etc. People can race whatever series they want, it just doesn't necessarily have to be part of the cup. I think we should start by defining the "mission" of the class 3 cup. then we can pick the races that best fit that mission. I am seeing that everyone has a different idea and I'm foreseeing this thing going down the drain because people can't agree and want to do their own thing. Then class 3 disapears.
In my opinion the cup MUST be budget based. I personally am considering this class because I can no longer afford class 8. It seems to me that If money wasn't a major concern than why would anyone want to race in this class. (maybe you just like going slow)
Lastly, Baja is a big deal. I've done it about 8 times. I have every intention of doing it in a class 3, but I do not think it should be part of the cup. Besides that, it is the only race that draws enough competition "without the assistance of the cup"
PS. I don't think people are getting the whole safari concept. we would only be entering that to save money. We would be racing each other... I don't care if casey lets us enter as class 11's.... we are there to race each other and compete for the cup.
sorry, that turned out to be 4 cents......

Welcome Gary,

While I can appreciate yours and others concern to keep costs down please don't forget that some members here are now competing for or plan to compete in the Score series for a class 3 championship. When you exclude Score races from the class 3 cup or schedule a cup race for the weekend after a Score event (which was done this year)you are basiclly leaving out the best this class has to race against. How much fun is that?

[venomous]

Not to be sarcastic and I mean this strictly as a rhetorical question. Whats the point of the cup then, we'll just all race for the score championship?

[flyinbronco]

Not to be sarcastic and I mean this strictly as a rhetorical question. Whats the point of the cup then, we'll just all race for the score championship?

Thats the best idea yet!!!!

Seriously, I like the class 3 cup idea, I just hate to see it take racers away from running in the Score series. The whole point I belive was to bring out more entries in class 3 not divide us into two groups. The more I read on here the more I realize that most likley will be the case. Those that want to race for fun will race for the cup and those that want to race in the Score series will do that.

[Tazz]

How much fun is that?

Not bagging on you Flyinbronco, but I see for some, it could be a lot of fun ;). Especially if their alternate choice is not being able to afford to race. I think what was worked out by Ken for the two races works great for giving people options.

Dan

[Cervantes Racing]

If we are refering to the Baja 250 this year that was in conflict with the Cup race, there were only 2 entrants total in class 3, one of which does NOT race here in the states and the mint was 2 weeks after the 250, so where is the problem with that ...tight but able to be done. Moss ran the Mint right? or am I missing something here? Primm had 3 weeks between this upcomming race on the 27th and at Primm there were only 2 entrants in that races as well. So back to what will attract more class 3 Racers if this Cup is to be in 09 we need to stop and again I stress figure out what races are REALISTIC for the majority to run and if not then forget it and who ever can run and finish the SCORE series in full will most likely win the championship which brings us back to the mighty $$$$$.

[flyinbronco]

I told you guys that I'm a nobody on here and that my posts are my opinions and no one else's. Until the day my Bronco is ready to race I will not be commenting further on this issue. Thanks for reading my posts and thank God I live in a country where I can voice my opinion.

I have a deep love for class 3. I have nothing but admiration and respect for those of you that are racing in it. Good luck to you all in all of your endevors.

[Cervantes Racing]

I think everyone either currently racing or soon to be should chime in on the matter no matter what their opinion is. You neven know you may come up with an idea no one else has come up with.:rolleyes:

[Blanco]

Personally, to me........

A big part of what attracted me to Class 3 was the fact that its an everymans class.
You build the truck you've already been wheeling in for years

You dont have to be rich.

Add a legal roll cage & a fuel cell & your ready to race...

Its been called a poor mans class & I'm a poor man. :o

& theres no way I myself could ever afford all thats involved in racing a SCORE race with my own Rig. :(

Thats why I asked earlier about JeepSpeed?

Did'nt they start out in like MORE or MDR Locally to me? ( I might be wrong? )
Then the numbers kept growing because people learned they could actually afford to go racing if the cost were kept low?

Trust me I know There nothing like the SCORE race's in Baja I love them!

But, I was thinking to my self that lots of potential race'ers will not go for it considering what you've gotta pay to race SCORE.

I started this site with the intent of helping encourage People to join the ranks of Class 3 & hope they do.

Weather they can afford to race SCORE or not.

& would love to see the Class grow & to me I dont care if its all on the Baja side or states side of the boarder..

Lets just get the numbers growing & then the larger number of racers can expand & pick at their will what series they wanna race this year or that year.


Just my humble opinion. :o

[venomous]

How bout this for an out of the box compromise to a looming problem. Say the cup was comprised of maybe 6 races, each race would have a certain point reward possibly based on length, difficulty, # of entrants etc. the winner of the cup would only use points for 4 of the races and could skip 2 races that did not work out for them for whatever Rea$on. just a possible direction........

[Joe Rockhead]

If I remember correctly, in the early days of Jeepspeed, the entry fees were subsidized, by sponsors like American racing wheels, or the promoters accepted a lower entry fee,so the racers could afford the more expensive races like BITD. Also it was a pretty inexpensive vehicle to build, compared to other classes, and with class rules and restrictions were very competitive with each other. Have not kept up with Jeepspeed in a few years, so have no idea about the entry fee structure anymore.

[Broncodawg]

Got to be a way to accomodate those who want to race for a Score championship and those who can't afford to, and need to race other series as well to save some coin.

Set up the Class 3 Cup schedule of races so none of the races outside Score conflict with Score races. That way those running all/most of the Score races can still compete in the chosen Cup races and Class 3 can be preserved in Score. At least one Score Mexico race and one BITD should be in the Cup tho IMHO. With enough entries wouldn't Casey create a Class 3?

After that run 2-4 races in the other series and compete against fellow 3s for the Cup points. Angry tissues ;) had some good ideas early on for a schedule and to make it work everyone will have to just be flexible. The 3 Cup will IMHO bring attention to Class 3 even if running some series races that don't have the class. Racers notice the old iron!
Best 4 of 6 race finishes allows people to miss a race or two.

[AngerIssues]

If I remember correctly, in the early days of Jeepspeed, the entry fees were subsidized, by sponsors like American racing wheels, or the promoters accepted a lower entry fee,so the racers could afford the more expensive races like BITD. Also it was a pretty inexpensive vehicle to build, compared to other classes, and with class rules and restrictions were very competitive with each other. Have not kept up with Jeepspeed in a few years, so have no idea about the entry fee structure anymore.

A good, AND... a VERY important point. Sal REFUSED to negotiate with the Skiltons on entry fees - so guess what? NO SCORE in Jeepspeed (not ever, to the best of my knowlege).

This takes time to wrangle those sponsors, and nobody (even me next year) will probably do this single-handedly.

[AngerIssues]

How bout this for an out of the box compromise to a looming problem. Say the cup was comprised of maybe 6 races, each race would have a certain point reward possibly based on length, difficulty, # of entrants etc. the winner of the cup would only use points for 4 of the races and could skip 2 races that did not work out for them for whatever Rea. just a possible direction........


I totally agree with this post and one below it. I agree that finishing points need to be weighted based on mileage. I'm not wanting to try to "gauge" difficulty, but length is a great indicator. Also, getting down to six is a great idea, but that seems to be the problem... with some people wanting the high profile races, and others wanting the cheaper, more local races. I guess maybe we take my "draft" schedule and find a way to drop it down to 7, 8 or something? I really want to give our Mexico brothers a shot too... but I feel like we can't please everyone (or "anyone" at this point??).

[Tazz]

but I feel like we can't please everyone (or "anyone" at this point??).

LOL Leadership is always a pain...Put something together and have everyone vote on the their choices. You should be able to do it on a multiple vote poll. Those with race vehicles that are going to race get to vote, take the 6 top votes out of the 8 or so choices. Weight them for distance, post the possible point available and there you have it. The class 3 cup. Everyone takes the best 4 finishes out of the first 5 they race. Highest point total is the winner of the class 3 cup.

We will all say thanks for putting it together, bitch and complain to you when its not perfect, and then pat the winner on the back. :D

[Blanco]

Maybe we could just set up a Poll & go with the most popular? :confused:

[AngerIssues]

Maybe we could just set up a Poll & go with the most popular? :confused:

what are you going to do, put ALL the race on the poll? good luck!

There are some racers that aren't on here regularly. How long do you leave it open? Who counts as a voter? current racers? future racers? if so, my daughter can vote, right! ha ha. just busting your chops.

I think someone has to take all the input and make a stab at this. We learned "some" this year.

I don't know what the right answer is, but I'm feeling you can't please everyone.

[AngerIssues]

LOL Leadership is always a pain...Put something together and have everyone vote on the their choices. You should be able to do it on a multiple vote poll. Those with race vehicles that are going to race get to vote, take the 6 top votes out of the 8 or so choices. Weight them for distance, post the possible point available and there you have it. The class 3 cup. Everyone takes the best 4 finishes out of the first 5 they race. Highest point total is the winner of the class 3 cup.

We will all say thanks for putting it together, bitch and complain to you when its not perfect, and then pat the winner on the back. :D

Thanks sir! I appreciate it.

It's a tough thing to put on a poll... I'm just not thinking anyone else will show at Parker, and if we have the Mint 400, the Baja 1000, and the V2R we have some pretty big-name races... we fill in the remainder with cheaper races hopefully closer to home for "some".

[gunit]

I am surprised that there is less interest in Parker than the Mint. The town is great and the course is great, it has lots of history, it is easy to get to, it is a big league race and I hope that others give it some serious consideration.

For those that are cost conscious; remember that next year, the Baja 1000 is a peninsula run which means a minimum of three fully equipped chase crews, loads of logistics and at least a week (probably 10 days with prerunning) away from home.

The V2R next year is a 3 day, 1000 mile stage race. This means that you are gone from home for a week. The cost and effort is equal to 3 races. To run a 300+ mile race, then prep for the next day, coordinate your pit crews, then try to eat & sleep only to get up early and do it all again day after day is grueling. I did it in '05. I finished and had a great time, but it wiped me out physically and financially and strained some of the relationships with my crew members.

Both the 3 day V2R and the full length B1K are epic events and well worth being on the schedule, but I would probably not do both in the same season and if I did, that would be all that I could do for the year. For the same money and time from work I could race the Parker 425, the Mint 400, the Baja 500 and a local race like Snowflake. These would be about the same number of race miles but would probably be easier for me to do logistically.

One last comment; I would love to see maximum participation from the group at one of the SCORE races (preferably other than Primm & Laughlin). This would go a long way towards preserving class 3 racing for the future which is part of the reason we are here discussing this.

[chupakabras]

For those that are cost conscious; remember that next year, the Baja 1000 is a peninsula run which means a minimum of three fully equipped chase crews, loads of logistics and at least a week (probably 10 days with prerunning) away from home.

.

you can save those 10 days, no need to prerun,. 1000 miles,. just a gps and score notes,. :D:D plan the race at home and save a lot of money,:D:D

[gunit]

Even without prerunning, someone from here in the states will be gone from home for over a week.
Day 1 Travel to Ensenada
Day 2 Tech/Contingency
Day 3 race day 1
Day 4 race day 2
Day 5 sleep
Day 6 La Paz to ?
Day 7 ? to home?
Day 8 couldn't get all the way home on day 7

But I know the real reason for your post; you don't want us down there finding all of your short cuts before race day!:D

[chupakabras]

Even without prerunning, someone from here in the states will be gone from home for over a week.

But I know the real reason for your post; you don't want us down there finding all of your short cuts before race day!:D

haha, short cuts?? are there any? haha, just kidding,. our last race was a 20 mile loop, and it took me like 2 laps to really learn the course,and to really get any advantage of knowing the course and to know how long to gas on and how far before steping on the brakes,.
. so,. for a 1000 miles,. damn,. you don't need to prerun if your point is to be that fast the 1000 miles, well, that was my point,. :D:D

[chupakabras]

Even without prerunning, someone from here in the states will be gone from home for over a week.
Day 1 Travel to Ensenada
Day 2 Tech/Contingency
Day 3 race day 1
Day 4 race day 2
Day 5 sleep
Day 6 La Paz to ?
Day 7 ? to home?
Day 8 couldn't get all the way home on day 7

But I know the real reason for your post; you don't want us down there finding all of your short cuts before race day!:D

daaaamnnnn, ok, you won. :D:D

[3amigo]

This is a great thread. It shows that there is passion out there when it comes to class 3. This thread is a success if for no other reason than to prove that point.

Why class 3? For me it is as simple as brand loyalty. I have been building, and beating on Isuzu's for over a decade. I know every nut and bolt on these things and how to keep them working. It just happens that class 3 is where they fit. If I just wanted to go desert racing I would probably go a different route, but here we are.

What do we want the class 3 cup to be? In my mind its purpose was as a fun side deal to loosely give 3 racers something to look forward to. I don't think that its intent is to ever become more important than the score class championship. My logic, maybe flawed, but I don't think that those few who seriously have a shot at the score championship are going to be swayed by anything class3 cup related. The Moss boys are going to do what they can to win the score title, its the pinacle of the sport. I won't argue that. Those teams that can chase the score championship should continue to do it. Those future racers that intend on chasing the score title my hats are off to you.

The purpose of the class3 cup, to me anyway, would be for the rest of us. The reason why we need the class3 cup, and not just the score championship, is purely for the fun of racing. Yes, I do think that going SLOW, or at least as fast as you can in a car you built is great fun. The class3 cup can make a difference in this way. If I am choosing between several different events, say a bore, mdr, snore type event, and one of them is a class3 cup race I would be motivated to choose the race that is the class3 cup race. This is how the cup races can help class3 and provide a fun freindly side show to the "real deal" score championship.

I don't see how any iteration of the class3 cup could seriously impact the score championship. I really don't see how not having the score races in the class3 cup shcedule is going to impact score participation. Those who can race score are going to do it, regardless. For the rest of us who may not have that option the class3 cup adds a level of fun that may be absent otherwise. The class3 cup "can" be something that makes running a class 3 type vehicle inside a group like sportsmen a lot more fun. I have no false ideas about ever winning the sportsmen class, but it would be cool to be able to rank my performance against other class 3 type vehicles. For ME that is where the value of the class3 cup is.

If having the score races in the cup is what people want, then I am all for it. I won't be able to be there racing in those events, so it would be nice if there are some other non score events in the class3 cup so I can participate. If a 6-8 race schedule works better for the group then thats great. I sure hope to take the starting line with some of you soon.

On a different note, what are peoples thoughts on awards for class3 cup races. I wouldn't mind paying $50-$100 into the pot for a race I run and have that money payed out for finishing order. Ken, I think you allready are doing something similar. I love this idea. It could give another reason for us all to show up together to race. The cash can be divided up based on # of racers at that race.

I have enjoyed hearing other peoples views on this subject. I hope everyone takes a minute and posts their thoughts on the subject. To often we operate under the assumption that we are all on the same page, well I do at least.

[AngerIssues]

I am surprised that there is less interest in Parker than the Mint. The town is great and the course is great, it has lots of history, it is easy to get to, it is a big league race and I hope that others give it some serious consideration.

For those that are cost conscious;


Can you please post the total entry fee for Parker, including the mounting kit for the IRC, the race rental fee for the IRC, and total "pro" fees that a pro class would pay to BITD, since you are interested in having Casey give us our own class?

I have not looked, but I'm very curious. While you are at it, care to post the entry for the Battle at Primm?

Don't forget, I LOVE parker... I love the town and the terrain, but BITD is scaring me away... even from racing sportsman. I think driver safety should be our OWN responsibility, not for those who sit and monitor us via sat. links so they can determine if we are upside down (IRC). It's all about Casey's liability insurance.

[straightaxle]

The IRC is $375 for the "mounting" kit which contains two antennaes, a bracket and a worthless fuse holder. That you only pay one time and own after that. It costs $275 per race rental, whether you cover 20 miles or 1000. There are more bells and whistles you can buy if you want, what's above is the minimum. SCORE and BITD races are the same price and have nothing to do with the tracker, all businsess is done directly with IRC. I payed for 4 trackers on my credit card for 2 trackers at V2R and Primm, but that's a whole other story that isn't finished yet...........

[gunit]

I believe that the entry fees for Parker this year was $850. for Pro and $500 for Safari plus the IRC mount and rental.
I don't know the fees for BAP.

I agree with you completely on the IRC, it just sucks, particularly on a loop race like Parker or Primm there is no place on the course where help could not get there in a few minutes and you constantly have racers passing by. It may have merit in Baja where you can be all alone but not for the loop races.

When you race Safari class it can double the cost for nothing. I have complained bitterly about it but got nowhere with Casey, so I think that it is here to stay.

[AngerIssues]

Hi all,

a) time to bump this thread and get the schedule in order before people just say "screw it".

b) I want to reiterate that I don't care what we call it, how it works, or how much money we all AGREE to throw at this, if ANY.... but I want to keep insisting that we TRY to show up at the same races, or we are dead as a class.

c) Several of us sat down at the MDR race, 3 current racers and one future, and there was a lot of interest in the San Felipe 250 for next year. Here are some reasons I think this works well as a Cup race.

- skip Laughlin, and THIS is the start of the SCORE series. Do well there, and you have a great shot (if interested) in moving on to pursue to the SCORE championship by choosing a couple more key races. I will NOT purposely go out of my way to race something that Moss is skipping, just to garnish points. That would be cheesy. I'd rather agree on which races we DO want to race together.

- it's my favorite "town" has always been my favorite race, hands down. If you have not been there, you wouldn't understand and you need to go. Friendly, small, camping, the beach, the nightlife (if wanted), the awesome race course, and the 30 or 40 miles of whoops never bothered me for a minute. (and matomi wash - love it).

- it's mexico, giving Chupa another possible race to join us for. I know it's $$$, but if we race a CODE race, the 250, and the 1000...at least we have given them, or any other mexican national a chance to come run with us a few times and make a good showing in the Class 3 Cup, if it exists.

[AngerIssues]

Another key point that was brought up... it would be helpful for ALL parties if anyone desiring to take place in a series such as the Class 3 Cup made it public what they DO intend to run.

It's been pretty obvious, we all have our favorites and some of us have different desires and reasons to race different races. Some want big money, big glory, others want small money, small glory, but we ALL seemingly want to race against OTHER racers, and more of the them!!

SO. It will be a loosely enforced requirement that you post a letter of intent - what you are thinking about racing next year, if you know! You can change this, of course, but crap, somebody has to throw down somewhere. A couple of you have already, thanks!!

I will get with my dad and post something in the next day or two.

Ken

[straightaxle]

By going to San Felipe, wouldn't that almost surely eliminate the Mint race from the schedule? I seem to remember that they were in close proximity to each other on the schedule this year. We had the best turnout of any to date at the Mint.

As far as the San Felipe race itself, it is everything that Ken described. This year it was even better because the crowds were down and you could actually get into places and there were even rooms available. The exception was what happened to the Chupas team's stuff, and I am still upset about that.

[Broncodawg]

Probably wrong as Don would know, but thought the Mint was just a one time deal to commemorate the earlier races, and isn't going to be annual?
Did go over big though, so maybe SNORE is going to keep it going?

[Cervantes Racing]

SNORE Site shows the MINT 400 March 28th of 2009.

TECATE SCORE SAN FELIPE 250
MARCH 13-15
San Felipe, Baja California

[3amigo]

I will be racing the MINT 400. I would love to race in SF and it is the mexico race I could probably do, but the Mint has preference for me.

Battle at Primm
ENTRY FEES $350 - Class UT,1, 1-2-1600, 5, 10, 12, Heavy Metal, 8, Mini Metal, 7, 7S
$250 - Class 9, 5/1600, 18 & Stock Full
$100 - Stock Bug
$100 - Class 15, 13
$75 - Class 1450, JeepSpeed
$95 Insurance
$85 Land Management Fee
$30 Membership Fee$30 Late Fee (Late fees will be charged to anyone that enters the race on the day of a race)

I don't see class 3 listed, but I would guess it would be in with the $250 group. $75 for 1450 is super cheap!

[Joe Rockhead]

Three Amigos, what part of Utah are you from? I go up there several times a year to visit those great National Parks you guys have.

[AngerIssues]

By going to San Felipe, wouldn't that almost surely eliminate the Mint race from the schedule? I seem to remember that they were in close proximity to each other on the schedule this year. We had the best turnout of any to date at the Mint.


Yes, they are two weeks apart. I know that is a problem.

Also, in response the Q about the Mint being a one-time shot. I have inside information that the Mint course is on the NORTH side of town. A deal has been reached with the Indians. That means.... rock garden, valley of fire, and NOT PRIMM. :);):D GOOD stuff.

I don't know guys and gals... two weeks is too short for most of us (given travel, tech/contingency, race, travel.

Mint was a good turnout (almost 5).... but man, 400 miles in Nevada vs 250 in San Felipe?

Need more people chiming in!!

[Dave G]

.... but man, 400 miles in Nevada vs 250 in San Felipe?

Seems like a no-brainer to me, more race miles, a shorter haul, no border crossing, (for some of us) ..... or the same 9,372 whoops we've been beating on for 20 years!

[flyinbronco]

Seems like a no-brainer to me, more race miles, a shorter haul, no border crossing, (for some of us) ..... or the same 9,372 whoops we've been beating on for 20 years!

I say bring on the whoops. Do you really think there are only 9,372 of them? I would have guessed higher.:confused:

[AngerIssues]

Seems like a no-brainer to me, more race miles, a shorter haul, no border crossing, (for some of us) ..... or the same 9,372 whoops we've been beating on for 20 years!

If the course was back in Primm... I'd probably have to argue with you... there are 9,373 huge whoops in Primm... with rocks too.

I guess these are great points... closer, cheaper, great publicity. Did I mention I have to go faster?? :) :)

[Tazz]

Seems like a no-brainer to me, more race miles, a shorter haul, no border crossing, (for some of us) ..... or the same 9,372 whoops we've been beating on for 20 years!

I agree, we'll be at the Mint.

[Moss2]

I say bring on the whoops. Do you really think there are only 9,372 of them? I would have guessed higher.:confused:

I would not question Dave on this. One particular SF250 on that nasty fenceline before dropping into Matomi he commented from the right seat that there were XXX number of whoops on that fenceline, he had counted every one.
If the Mint really is going to be on the old northern section I would not count on it being a lot smoother than PRIMM. The weather may have beaten it a little flatter. I remember prerunning some of that years ago and it seemed pretty rough then. It had it all, rocky crossgrain and deep silt. But some different scenery and terrain would sure be nice.

[kal]

will run all of m.o.r.e. and 1 BITD in '09.

[Grimm]

We're shooting for the Mint if we can get ready by then, 6 months.

[3amigo]

OK, it looks like the gauntlet has been thrown down! Its a class 3 showdown at the MINT 400.

[AngerIssues]

I would not question Dave on this. One particular SF250 on that nasty fenceline before dropping into Matomi he commented from the right seat that there were XXX number of whoops on that fenceline, he had counted every one.
If the Mint really is going to be on the old northern section I would not count on it being a lot smoother than PRIMM. The weather may have beaten it a little flatter. I remember prerunning some of that years ago and it seemed pretty rough then. It had it all, rocky crossgrain and deep silt. But some different scenery and terrain would sure be nice.


Yes, the rock-garden is basically shelves of "caliche"... that crap is so hard you need dynamite to dig some pools in Vegas, no bull.

I'm just sick of Primm, that's all.

[straightaxle]

If the course was back in Primm... I'd probably have to argue with you... there are 9,373 huge whoops in Primm... with rocks too.

I guess these are great points... closer, cheaper, great publicity. Did I mention I have to go faster?? :) :)


Ken, you are growing fuzz between your ears! It has been too long since you have been there, San Felipe is hands down MANY times worse than Primm for whoops. I would call the Mint at Primm and the SF 250 about equal wear and tear. Two races is certainly doable, we have done it several times now, twice this year in fact. You just treat the two races like a single race, and prep and pace yourself accordingly (and don't destroy the truck in the first race!).

[AngerIssues]

Ken, you are growing fuzz between your ears! It has been too long since you have been there, San Felipe is hands down MANY times worse than Primm for whoops. I would call the Mint at Primm and the SF 250 about equal wear and tear. Two races is certainly doable, we have done it several times now, twice this year in fact. You just treat the two races like a single race, and prep and pace yourself accordingly (and don't destroy the truck in the first race!).

I truly don't know why the whoops in SFO never bothered me. I think because of the width of the track (many lines), and the fact that they all seem to be together for like 30 miles straight.. and then you get all different types of stuff to run. Plus, you have those fun targets that run across the course. What are those, jackalopes? Locals?

I seriously picked a line one time to avoid a "step-up" whoop (the kind where the face is like 90 degrees up). I chased most of the crowd off, except for a kid in a lawn chair. He made NO attempt to move :eek:. I must have come 6 inches from him. I guess I'm used to the crowd scattering when the see me coming. At one race, Primm, we came through pit b, hit a big whoop, and the ass-end nearly went over on us (endo). People ran like hell. On the next lap, they were running before we EVER got near them. It was very funny (sort of).

I truly don't think I can take time off for both the SFO and Mint. As much as I love SFO, I thnk the comments about the Mint make sense. closer, cheaper, etc.

I can't prep my race car for a 250 plus a 600... what the hell am I talking about, my DAD does it!

[XterraRacer]

Just my opinion, as I am not a class 3 yet. Why not just take on the SNORE series for this next year. Build the class there and then take all those that raced any of the 6 races as a class 3 and poll them on where they would like to race.

I personally like the schedule SNORE has at their events. Tech on Friday evening and drivers meeting 1 hour before the race. No IRC required. Lower entry fees, a good working organization. Plus the coarse does not get as torn up from all the class 1 and TTs.

[AngerIssues]

1 SNORE Mint 400 Las Vegas, NV 400 March 27
2 MDR Mojave 250 Mojave, CA April
3 VORRA or CODE NorCal/Nor NV or Mex may
4 BORE Jackpot 250 Jackpot, NV July
5 BITD TSCO Vegas to Reno Nevada 1000 August 19-23
6 Whiplash Snowflake race Northern AZ Early Sept
7 VORRA or CODE NorCal/Nor NV or Mex october
8 SCORE Baja 1000 Mex- point-to-point 1000 November

I think the input has been great. Everyone has their own budgets and agendas. I think by having a mix of high profile races and affordable races we can maybe have some good turnout next year.

[jkrell]

Whats been decided for next year?

I know in the ATK Wrangler we have been considering:

V2r
Baja 500
Baja 1000

I also like the idea of the Mint.

You guys ever invite the Jeepspeed guys to the class3cup stuff? None of those races are on the Jeepspeed Calendar, seems like an easy way to get more cars to the Class3cup events. Have you guys ever talked with Clive about some combined Class 3 / Jeepspeed Unlimited events? He is a great promotor and I'm sure would have some ideas.

[retroblazer]

I personally have posted over the last couple of years looking for bodies from JeepSpeed. I know Clive well and we talk every few months it seems. First and foremost, he is interested in promoting his own deal. At the margin, I'm sure he wouldn't mind seeing a stronger Class 3, but I haven't seen anything yet that gives a non Jeep racer any reason to believe he has them in mind.

[retroblazer]

It looks like the Mint will be on our short list for races next year.

[Blanco]

It looks like the Mint will be on our short list for races next year.
The MINT is definitly on the list. :D

[lr3racer]

we like to runn some of the low $$ races .

[jkrell]

I personally have posted over the last couple of years looking for bodies from JeepSpeed. I know Clive well and we talk every few months it seems. First and foremost, he is interested in promoting his own deal. At the margin, I'm sure he wouldn't mind seeing a stronger Class 3, but I haven't seen anything yet that gives a non Jeep racer any reason to believe he has them in mind.

I wouldn't expect Clive to want to promote the Class 3 cup...but I could see there being some synergy between the two that both could benefit from. How about pick a BITD race later in the year that is already on the Jeespeed Calendar. Ask Clive if the Class 3 guys can come under the Jeepspeed 3 Class for one "special combined event". Could easily be 10 plus cars total. I think it could be great. A win/win for both camps.

NOTE-- I dont speak for clive, these are just my own wandering ideas.

[tnt]

Im sure a lot of you have seen this already http://www.drive-racing.com/drive_race_info.html i think its going to be a hoot, and affordable.

[bajabum]

i think it would be a great idea to combine the jeepspeed 3 and class 3 cup. for one there are only about 4 jeepspeed cup trucks that are racing and the entries are even lower for class 3 turnouts (besides the b1k). it would be a good opportunity to bump up the entries and get more interest and promote both classes, plus it would make for some fun competition. just my .02

[AngerIssues]

i think it would be a great idea to combine the jeepspeed 3 and class 3 cup. for one there are only about 4 jeepspeed cup trucks that are racing and the entries are even lower for class 3 turnouts (besides the b1k). it would be a good opportunity to bump up the entries and get more interest and promote both classes, plus it would make for some fun competition. just my .02

Sounds fun! Clive doesn't race Score due to their unwillingness to reduce the entry fees for his class, is that correct? I heard that a couple of years ago. Casey was more than willing to do it, provided he had good turnouts.

[retroblazer]

i think it would be a great idea to combine the jeepspeed 3 and class 3 cup. for one there are only about 4 jeepspeed cup trucks that are racing and the entries are even lower for class 3 turnouts (besides the b1k). it would be a good opportunity to bump up the entries and get more interest and promote both classes, plus it would make for some fun competition. just my .02

Sounds good, but one must remember there is no wheelbase limit in 3700. I'm thinking of the hemi powered JK with a 114" or the Jeep pickup which is at 125"+. It's like watching EB's go against a full size.