Spirit or letter of the rule book

[tommybronco67]

So there are definite loop holes and vagueness in the rules. My question is: is a bronco a bronco a bronco? The body has to resemble the model right? Soo.... how bout a 104" fsb frame with early bronco skins. How do the truck guys get away with it say a extended cab ranger vs single vs long bed etc?

I even see the ttb eb on here that is threatening to be within the regs. If bronco suspension is legal across the years then why not wheelbase trackwidth and so on?

[AngerIssues]

So there are definite loop holes and vagueness in the rules. My question is: is a bronco a bronco a bronco? The body has to resemble the model right? Soo.... how bout a 104" fsb frame with early bronco skins. How do the truck guys get away with it say a extended cab ranger vs single vs long bed etc?

I even see the ttb eb on here that is threatening to be within the regs. If bronco suspension is legal across the years then why not wheelbase trackwidth and so on?


great questions... track width plus or minus 1 inch... I think. I suppose you have a pick a year that you say your bronco is... ya can't say it's an 85 with a solid front axle. Ya can't say it's an early bronco with a TTB. I don't think anyone gives a shiat what you run for cosmetics...

Just remember you are dealing with a bunch of bronco experts. I WILL say... show up with something and race!! I don't think anyone I know is going to pitch a fit... unless you show up with Big Oly II... and call it a "bronco". The day I start seeing you beat the black bronco, I'll worry about it.

[tommybronco67]

You will see that happen! Not this year but give me some time. Been running with a good team out of Reno w a 7 truck and have a lot of people fab skills and experienc to learn from and apply. I know the moss boys are good and fast and they need some competition.

[fj40]

You will see that happen! Not this year but give me some time. Been running with a good team out of Reno w a 7 truck and have a lot of people fab skills and experienc to learn from and apply. I know the moss boys are good and fast and they need some competition.

We heard this one before......;);)
Welcome to C3R!!!
Enjoy your stay.

[tommybronco67]

I am sure you have i have too.

The funny thing is there is nothing super special with the moss' car. They must have amazing prep, and even better drivers. I guess all theirs years behind the wheel give them that cumilative advatage.

[AngerIssues]

I am sure you have i have too.

The funny thing is there is nothing super special with the moss' car. They must have amazing prep, and even better drivers. I guess all theirs years behind the wheel give them that cumilative advatage.


Super prep, smart drivers, momentum in the form of figuring out what brakes and making sure it doesn't happen again... being prepared for the unusual (a spare sheer pin for the bottom of the distributor!... steering box sector shaft?? etc).

did I mention excellent prep and smart drivers?

This is all easier said than done! I hope you can "bring it"!! We all need the competition!!

[tommybronco67]

So just so i am clear. A 78 bronco chassis built to spec under all the class 3 rules with some early bronco skins should meet the rules over all An is really only a cosmetic change for you other racers and see no advantage to it? Right?

Moss's you have any input on this?

I see the benefits of the 104" WHEEL BASE but i like the retro look maybe something like this?

[AngerIssues]

works for me... I don't frankly care what the cosmetics are... as long as you can run 4x4 and stay under 108... assuming you don't start throwing crap in that doesn't follow the rules, like 3-link, for instance.

Again, check with Moss... and others.

I'm guessing that is the guy who races MORE right... photoshop'd? I forgot his name.

Ken

[Dave G]

Ask Mr. Savage, He will tell you what is legal under SCORE rules, and since most sanctioning bodies respect SCORE rules, his answer generally goes.

Do I care? Not at all - but that certainly doesn't mean you couldn't be protested by someone that made an effort to keep their racer out of the "grey area"!

[TIMMY LEE PRUETT]

Rules and racing is a very funny marriage. They are always changing and when some one comes up with something that really works they change the rules. You can look at the history of offroad racing and see all that changed in almost every class. Class 8 had so many rules that were being stretched they made a new class called Trophy truck Remember Dave Ashley's Bronco, go try to find one of those at the local Ford Dealer. Class 4 went through some very drastic changes and even more expensive.Nissan and Dodge spent a ton of money for a couple of years of racing. I really enjoyed stretching the rules to go faster even better when the Tech Folks couldn't find what was done. Every type of racing involves challenging the rules why do you think Chad and Jimmy are always having a little extra inspection on their Chevy. I must say this is almostas much fun as racing.

[AngerIssues]

[QUOTE=TIMMY LEE PRUETT;Dave Ashley's Bronco, go try to find one of those at the local Ford Dealer[/QUOTE]

Ashley or Smith? Some folks have said I look like Dan Smith; when I'm sporting a beard which is trimmed up nicely... (almost never!!)) :p

That Rough Rider Bronco, which Ashley and Smith took turns in (as I recall; when Ashley wasn't busy with Class 4)... was the ONLY bronco I've ever seen that could truly get up on top and pull it of. It was crazy fast. I think, to this day, it's the faster Bronco ever. Moss is fast and consistent, and very well-prepped with smart drivers; but I have never seen a Bronco as fast as the Smith/Ashley team.

[TIMMY LEE PRUETT]

Like I said rules are someones interpatation, IE; a coil spring front equates to a coil over. A 1968 long trailing arm front makes and even longer arm. Most racing I have found is based on money or guys that can build it themselves. I haven't been to a desert race in a while but my curiosity has peaked and I would like to look at the Moss Bros truck. I remember when I built a 7 S Jeep truck with the straight front axle, the job was to make it act like a independant front end. I'm going to post some pictures of how we bent the rules to go fast with reliablity and having the tranfer case engaged. That was one of the rules that I wanted for class 3 and 4 that the 4 wheel drive had to work.

[tommybronco67]

Whos class 3 has 4wd that doesn't work? The rule book states it has to.

Post those pics up we are interested.

[TIMMY LEE PRUETT]

Can't talk about the present but the history. Most didn't run in 4 wheel drive the rule was you had to pull yourself with the front end. Never once saw it done. Does the rules now state you have to run in 4 wheel drive or just be able to demostrate 4 wheel drive. Ford built asley and myself some transfer cases that you really did run in 4wd, then they worked on the front ends to handle the horse power. See where i'm going money or learn to do it yourself. I'm looking forward to going to some future races and see where it's gone. I really enjoy all this.

[Blanco]

Does the rules now state you have to run in 4 wheel drive or just be able to demostrate 4 wheel drive.
The rules say.
Class 3 Racing Forums - View Single Post - SCORE Class 3 rules (from the '06-'10 book)

[TIMMY LEE PRUETT]

The rule hasn't changed from 1980's. The picture of your truck are you in 4wd?

[Blanco]

The rule hasn't changed from 1980's. The picture of your truck are you in 4wd?
Assuming your talking to me.......?
No, I was in 2WD.
Only drop into 4 if need be. :cool:

[TIMMY LEE PRUETT]

With the work we did I started running in 4wd full time even took the shifter out. When the Super 4WD's showed up in 1988/89 Macpherson Chevy, Rod's Dodge and Jack Johnson's/Mears JR. NIssan I had asked that we consider having to run in 4WD. That would have added either a lot of expense or calmed down the stuff that was being built. I was lucky that Ford saw the need to help out. But it gets back to the rules as an interpatation, GREY IS GOOD
Thanks for the discussion, I really enjoy this and miss it a lot.

[Moss2]

Can't talk about the present but the history. Most didn't run in 4 wheel drive the rule was you had to pull yourself with the front end. Never once saw it done. Does the rules now state you have to run in 4 wheel drive or just be able to demostrate 4 wheel drive. Ford built asley and myself some transfer cases that you really did run in 4wd, then they worked on the front ends to handle the horse power. See where i'm going money or learn to do it yourself. I'm looking forward to going to some future races and see where it's gone. I really enjoy all this.

I really think 4wd is a great advantage to make up for the other SWB shortcomings. Of course the problem is making it live. I am interested in hearing more about transfercases and things that were done to make the front ends handle some horsepower. Did you guys run a locked transfercase or some sort of differential unit?

Enjoyed watching some of your rigs run in the late 80's.

Ken

[offroadaction]

For the Ford guys, have a look at the Expedition t/case. I know some of the Pro 4 guys run a modified version that has something like a viscous coupler inside it. We installed a used Pro 4 version from Steve McCrossan in a truck here and it worked wonders. It senses if the front or rear end is slipping more and sends more power to the opposite axle (which has more traction). The truck hooked up so much better with the new case.

[TIMMY LEE PRUETT]

Borg-Warner modified a 1456 chain drive unit for us, if the chain broke you still had rear wheel drive. Warn Industries built the hubs. Steve Chrisman built the front end gears and carrier which had extra spider gears, only thing is you had to fab up an outside the housing axle keeper. Ford took care of some bullet proof axles and axle stubs. Borg-Warner built me aspecial one off for the Baja 100o one year. I had a really nice lead at the Goat trail over Steve Kelly in the Mac. Chevy, problem was since the transferr case was an experiment it had a couple extra gages and data aquisition equipment on board.I told the Engineer that the temp gage was pegged and that we would change it out at the next pit. I got there still had a good lead, the engineer jumped into the truck while I was trying get out. He put a piece of ductape over the gage and said it was fixed no need to change the T-case out. The truck rolled down a big raven 15 miles west of Mikes Sky Ranch and it burnt to the ground melting the t-case, it's still there if anybody is interested. Looking forward to meeting at a future race.

[coilover88]

So just so i am clear. A 78 bronco chassis built to spec under all the class 3 rules with some early bronco skins should meet the rules over all An is really only a cosmetic change for you other racers and see no advantage to it? Right?

Moss's you have any input on this?

I see the benefits of the 104" WHEEL BASE but i like the retro look maybe something like this?

104" looks like hell! Our truck is the original wheel base AND is full time 4x4. We have had NO failures due to full time 4x4 in the 7 years we have run Forrest. Stock transfer case.
The longer wheelbased trucks have a decided advantage in stability and IMHO should not run with us vintage short base Broncos.