Complete Schedules and approximate entry fees

[AngerIssues]

How about this boys and girls...

Let's seriously consider electing one race to perhaps get started.

If we could put our own little series together, and have some great racing without all the BS (and costs), I would seriously consider quitting SCORE. I might still race in mexico from time-to-time, but who knows.

Here is a document (version 1) listing all of the schedules we might consider. I say we get this website link out to ANYONE who has raced short wheelbase, including all the Jeepspeed teams.

Furher, I think we should:

a) discuss who we would like to see at this race (2 wheel vs 4x4, wheel-base length, pre-runners, etc.

b) lobby others on why we think a certain race is better than others (cost, dates, location, HEAT, etc)

c) kick this around for a few weeks and then let each person who is serious about racing VOTE on a race to start.

We could each kick in extra money if we choose a sportsman race, and have our own purse, and get really cool trophies (not some cheesy plaques).

What do you guys think??

Short Wheel Base Shootout (?)
Class 3 Challenge (?)
Bronco Bash (sorry Raffo - ha ha).

ken leavitt

[Blanco]

What do you guys think??

Short Wheel Base Shootout (?)
Class 3 Challenge (?)
Bronco Bash (sorry Raffo - ha ha).

Ken> http://www.thewebwheeler.com/forums/images/smilies/14.gif < Raffo.

http://www.thewebwheeler.com/forums/images/smilies/humm_smilie.gif............................

You got my attention....
I'll do what I can from my end.

[Blanco]

Just wondering....
How well do you have this thought out?
Did you just come up with this or have you been thinking about this for a long time?

Lets say the short wheel base Shoot out?

how would the rules be written out to keep the playing field somewhat level :confused:

Or are these things we would all need to come up with?


Or let say the class 3 challege...
MDR allows 2 wheel drive Class 3000's

I dont know what wheel travel Lee Orr has but he's 2WD & I'm assuming it was done for increased front travel..

I'm in no way knocking what you've brought up, But I'm curious.. http://www.thewebwheeler.com/forums/images/smilies/16.gif

[AngerIssues]

This was spawned mostly by this website, e-mails from other racers about frustrations, and some forums on race-dezert. I think maybe Raffo had a similar idea so I'm not trying to take credit.

As for other cars. After watching the Jeepspeed race at Parker, I don't think these guys, including 2x4 run any faster than we do. I enjoyed watching them battle it out.

I do admit we'd have to do something for the more challenged cars, like the good old broncos and perhaps Jeeps. How about a handicap based upon wheel travel and length. I don't think it would be impossible to calculate.

If we are taking about a FUN race and not 2000 bucks to enter, it would be great to see how the finishing order comes out.

Some SWB pre-runners may have more travel than my race truck, but in a 200 or 300 mile race, the chance of a pre-runner holding together at any speed is a bet I'm willing to take. I'd gladly race head-to-head with the 2x4s, and I'd be more then willing to give more "challenged" vehicles a time-advantage. They would still have to finish, of course!! Have you seen "Pinks"? I don't want to start a big ugly negotiation, but let's face it.. a 67 Bronco with 8 inches of wheel travel and a wheel-base of 96 inches or something? I'd love to have them at our races and would make it interesting and give them a shot at winning. Maybe there is a way to make a "qualifying" session that works - who knows. Once you begin to establish a pattern, we could use average MPH or something. That would be easy to use for calculating a handicap system.

You get a time advantage for every inch of wheel-travel you are lacking from the biggest in class... and you get additional time for how short you are, compared to the biggest in class. Maybe the same for being narrow.

Either that or the full-size bronco and blazer guys have to race with a hang-over. Wait, I guess I usually do that anyway. No wonder I had so many DNF's last year. Maybe it wasn't the motor after all!!!

Anyway, the point is to make it fun and rewarding and affordable.

Thoughts??

ken

[retroblazer]

My kid goes on spring break starting March 23. There is a MDR race on the 31st in Barstow. Assuming my truck is in one piece after the San Felipe race, we'll be running the MDR race. That's my first, then I'm looking at the MDR night race in Aug. on the 11th.

[Blanco]

My kid goes on spring break starting March 23. There is a MDR race on the 31st in Barstow. Assuming my truck is in one piece after the San Felipe race, we'll be running the MDR race. That's my first, then I'm looking at the MDR night race in Aug. on the 11th.

1st off I love where Ken is going with his ideas.....

Jeep speed from what I understand has two class'es .
The low buck & high dollar class.... Thats another idea.

& Chris, You raced the Outlaw 250....That was your 1st MDR, No :confused:

Once you know for sure that your racing some of my Local races please make sure to tell me so I can push for the Time off & we can pre-run in Blanco again...:cool:

[retroblazer]

Yes, I ran my first MDR race last year. My reference to my first race is to my first race in the MDR series this year. I will be coming out from Chicago on the 23rd, prep the truck then race in Barstow the following weekend.

[Blanco]

Great!
So do you plan on racing the whole series?
& taking Orr off his pedestal.

You would took that Race if not for the Darn Leaf spring eye. :rolleyes:

[AngerIssues]

The March 31 race might be too early to get a number of entries to commit to it, but know knows.

Moss? Others?

If things go really well for me in San Felipe, it might be an option. Conversely, if things go really bad (early DNF), it might be an option. In other words, if the truck is in great shape after San Felipe, it's a definite maybe. As we know, sometimes something happens very early in the race that can take you out, but leave you with a freshly prepped truck.

I know March in Barstow sounds better than June/July in Barstow.

kwl

[Blanco]

MDR already has their version of Class 3 its called 3000.

I dont really know what the difference's in rules are except they allow 2WD..

[retroblazer]

The March 31 race might be too early to get a number of entries to commit to it, but know knows.

Moss? Others?

If things go really well for me in San Felipe, it might be an option. Conversely, if things go really bad (early DNF), it might be an option. In other words, if the truck is in great shape after San Felipe, it's a definite maybe. As we know, sometimes something happens very early in the race that can take you out, but leave you with a freshly prepped truck.

I know March in Barstow sounds better than June/July in Barstow.

kwl

The second race I'm doing in the MDR series is in Aug. at night. No, I'm not knocking Orr off. He'll run all the races. I'm just out to run a few. I'll do three if I'm lucky.

[Grimm]

Well, I don't have my Class 3 race ready yet, but when it is you can count me in. Were gonna need all the practice we can get.

[Jeff Knoll]

I'll offer an idea,

Jeepspeed has a 4 month break in the schedule after MDR april 31 st untill
MDR Aug,11th.

Some are filling in the void with the Baja 500 as an optional non points race in June.

If you would like a few Jeepspeeds to participate I would look for a race in that period.

The June 16th coyote wash 200 night race comes to mind.

I know Our team is looking for a pick up race that is inexpensive in the 4 month break.

Just $0.2

[AngerIssues]

I do like the idea of getting a lot of class 3 racers together, including (in my opinion), the jeep-speed guys.

I don't see that race though, in my schedule that I attached with all the promoters. Did I grab the wrong year for a certain promoter?

who does that race?

The only issue I have with that race, is that those who race the Baja 500 will probably be tore up too bad to race that soon.

I'm telling you, the jackpot race, 7 hours north of Vegas was great when I raced it. It had several nice jeeps and short laps that were easy to chase for small teams.

Do you think, if we agree to allow the jeep-speeds in our class, we could get some? What do you guys think, Moss, Raffo, others who might be racing the 500? Would you agree to allow the jeep-speeds if they want to race with us??

ken


.

[Blanco]

My only thought on this is if the jeepspeed guys were interested & they came out in large numbers then it would take away from the whole class 3 thing. http://www.thewebwheeler.com/forums/images/smilies/shrug.gif
it might be taken over by the number of Jeepspeeds & it would seem like the Class 3's invited to race with them?

I like the idea of trying to generate interest in the class & maybe getting more people into it & trying to keep it from fading away into a silent death that nobody seems to notice....

The main reason for starting this Site.

Yes I know, I dont know as much as you actual racers but I thought I'd throw that out there. :o

But I suppose with the relatively small number of class 3's, the jeep speeds might be helpful to generate attention.

[retroblazer]

I do like the idea of getting a lot of class 3 racers together, including (in my opinion), the jeep-speed guys.

I don't see that race though, in my schedule that I attached with all the promoters. Did I grab the wrong year for a certain promoter?

who does that race?

The only issue I have with that race, is that those who race the Baja 500 will probably be tore up too bad to race that soon.

I'm telling you, the jackpot race, 7 hours north of Vegas was great when I raced it. It had several nice jeeps and short laps that were easy to chase for small teams.

Do you think, if we agree to allow the jeep-speeds in our class, we could get some? What do you guys think, Moss, Raffo, others who might be racing the 500? Would you agree to allow the jeep-speeds if they want to race with us??

ken


.

Just a reminder, JeepSpeeds are legal in class 3. Most won't enter the class because the entry fee is significantly higher and Clive sure as hell doesn't want us in JeepSpeed.

[AngerIssues]

correction:
Only 4x4 Jeep-speeds are currently legal in SCORE... if we want to allow 2x4 in class, we would have to ALL agree to it. Remember a couple of years ago, somebody in our class said "no"... and then later changed their mind? Anyway, if one person "poo-poos" the whole idea, they would be forced to race in the jeep-speed class, not class 3, unless SCORE makes some changes, which we all objected to "on the fly". I'm ready to do someting to get more entries. I'd rather take 2nd with 10 entries than first with two.

[BajaBronco13]

Man this is a great idea. Count me in. My bronco has a way to go but I would definitely help out where I can. And I have some built in volunteers with my two boys and my four nephews. :) Would that make this series a Kathy Lee Gifford sweat shop, lmao.

[Jeff Knoll]

My only thought on this is if the jeepspeed guys were interested & they came out in large numbers then it would take away from the whole class 3 thing. http://www.thewebwheeler.com/forums/images/smilies/shrug.gif
it might be taken over by the number of Jeepspeeds & it would seem like the Class 3's invited to race with them?

I like the idea of trying to generate interest in the class & maybe getting more people into it & trying to keep it from fading away into a silent death that nobody seems to notice....

The main reason for starting this Site.

Yes I know, I dont know as much as you actual racers but I thought I'd throw that out there. :o

But I suppose with the relatively small number of class 3's, the jeep speeds might be helpful to generate attention.




Biting the hand that feeds here:


IMHO Jeepspeed is a spin off of class 3.
The 4x4 models are legal as stated above. Just my opinions but the first thing I woulkd do if I where racing class 3 would be to get the sanction (I'll use SCORE for an example) to stop letting one car create a class. Like Bob Land at SF. What is that? Who races a class with no one else?

I have said it before and still believe that Jeepspeed is hard to beat, we get reduced entry fee's additional pay back on top of the promoters and it seems special traetment with transponders.
If you want more people in the class cut off the additional Jeepspeed races and make them race class 3.
I truly feel that if I wanted to race any race I could make a couple phone calls and get 3 or 4 jeepspeeds together, go to the sanction and add the class. Should I be able to do this? Greed dictates that if I want to spend money they will let me.


I would not concern myself with thinking that it would be class 3 racing with Jeepspeed but more of Jeepspeed racing where they belong.



Just trying to offer another opinion so you guys that race class 3 and want to see it grow can maybe build off it. I might very well build something else when we want to step up from Jeepspeed, but I would like to have the option to chose, and hope to see 3 still around.

It just seems that the promoters need to do some house cleaning in the smaller classs and with popularity of TT and the faster classes its the easiest path to discountinue them.

From my experience in Rock crawling you must continue to invest in the future racers in the slower classes to continue growth after the fad wears off.



I got that race from a mag that had all the race promoters schedules.
Its a superstition championship series MDR race. I was not implying that you should work the race around Jeepspeed just adding that if you want them, that would be the best time to get them.

[Blanco]

Its kinda of a bummer that Jeeps got there own class because by deffinition they completely fit the Class 3 discription. Short wheelbased 4x4 S.U.V.

[AngerIssues]

Hmm... I read this a couple of times, and I'm not sure where to go with it.

I can't argue with your statements, I tend to agree with the "jeepspeed racing where they belong (class 3)", reduced entry fees, and "nobody should race in a class by themselves".

Now I realize it's a "superstition series race", not the other. I'm a little confused why they have both, but that doesn't matter. Unfortunately, those of us who plan to race the Baja 500 are going to be unable to race that June race.

Guys, I'm kinda running out of ideas. I'd love to see what Team Moss has to say. Is there a race you guys would like to push for - whereby we get everyone we can reach to come out... probably during the Jeepspeed break? I know the 2x4 guys don't scare you, based upon earlier conversations. Would you be willing to have a handicapping system whereby wheelbase deducts time from your "finishing time"? I would. It's the only way to give the really short guys a chance. Open for ideas boys and girls.

[Jeff Knoll]

You could pick any race and try and find a sponsor to put up some cash?

http://www.race-dezert.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26889

http://www.race-dezert.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25164

Jeepspeed also has a preformanced based payout at MDR races that really does a lot for getting as many people out to the race as possible. Nothing like a little peer pressure to sweeten the pot.

I'm just bouncing idea's don't wanna step on any toes.

Maybe start really hitting the mags hard to cover the class specificly and then get who ever sponsors the payout some publicity. I think we all know the bottom line and thats money.

I'm a new guy to this sport so bear with me if this has already been tried.

[Blanco]

Maybe start really hitting the mags hard to cover the class specificly and then get who ever sponsors the payout some publicity. I think we all know the bottom line and thats money.


I'm in tight with Bronco Driver Magazine. :cool:
Once we have this all set up I'm sure they help out as well.. http://www.thewebwheeler.com/forums/images/smilies/cheers.gif

What I really want to know is what are the rules we'll be following for this Because My Bronco is about to Hit Fantellies shop again & I might just make sure to have the cage up-grades follow some rules once we know what those rules will be? :confused:

SCORE rules are out for me.
Because I did'nt have the cage cert'ed before the dead line & I'm running 1.75 tubing.

[retroblazer]

Hmm... I read this a couple of times, and I'm not sure where to go with it.

I can't argue with your statements, I tend to agree with the "jeepspeed racing where they belong (class 3)", reduced entry fees, and "nobody should race in a class by themselves".

Now I realize it's a "superstition series race", not the other. I'm a little confused why they have both, but that doesn't matter. Unfortunately, those of us who plan to race the Baja 500 are going to be unable to race that June race.

Guys, I'm kinda running out of ideas. I'd love to see what Team Moss has to say. Is there a race you guys would like to push for - whereby we get everyone we can reach to come out... probably during the Jeepspeed break? I know the 2x4 guys don't scare you, based upon earlier conversations. Would you be willing to have a handicapping system whereby wheelbase deducts time from your "finishing time"? I would. It's the only way to give the really short guys a chance. Open for ideas boys and girls.

MDR hosts two series, the California series, which largely consists of races in Lucerne and Barstow, and the Superstition races, mostly in Plaster City off I-8. The Superstition races were originally put on by Fud, but taken over by MDR after his death.
Personally, I'd rather not get into a handicapping game. I'd rather give them the ability to add wheelbase. And no, I'm not in favor of 2wd. The JeepSpeed guys can change back and forth from 2 to 4wd as easy as changing underwear. Many of them have both set-ups.