Scout II Racer / Intro

[tsm1mt]

The "Why Class 3?" thread was getting a little off-topic, and Blanco asked about my racer, so here's a new thread.

My name is Tom Mandera, I live in Helena MT - desert racing mecca, right? :D

On the "Why C3" theme.. here's a sampling of my fleet..

http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/PlainGallery/2005HouseJulyScoutLineup/dcp_0013.sized.jpg

L-R is my IH 1T 4dr pickup tow-rig well off to the left, then the racer, the trail rig, and my street Scout IIs. There are others in the fleet, including my wife's, but those are the ones that see the most use.

Since we're interested in racing here..

I started racing in 1998. I raced my trail rig, and a borrowed SII racer a few times, then built my own race car.

4th of July 1999 I was headed to my first race..

http://www.tmcom.com/~tsm1/scout/jpg/racing/july_4_1999/Image2.jpg

Stock (tired) 304, rebuilt 727, full width Dana 44s with 4.88s, stock 235/75-15 tires (take offs from something I had lying around), Sch40 rollcage (it's legal here, and I inherited from someone else).. mostly a pile of junk I managed to throw together.

It, and I, evolved over the years.. I logged about 10,000 miles flat-towing it to races and events. These days I have the '74 IH 4dr long-box tonner to do my towing and a 16' trailer. Ahh.. the lap of luxury!

Memorial Day 2005 I rebodied the Scout after a rollover in February.. took lots of pictures, because the next day I was trading paint and trashed a new quarter panel. :D

http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/PlainGallery/2005LittleDevil05FinalRepairandPrep/img_2387.sized.jpg
http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/PlainGallery/2005MemorialDayRace/IMG_2611.sized.jpg
http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/PlainGallery/2005MemorialDayRace/IMG_2722.sized.jpg

During the following off-season I pulled the body off and fixed the massive fatigue failures on the frame - the engine was trying to fall out the bottom, the body mounts were all shot and the frame torn in a number of places.

Today it looks pretty much the same. 4.88 gears, 31x15.50 Terras out back (now on aluminum wheels) and 31x10.50 MTs up front.

Engine is a worked over IH 304V8 that weighs around 700lbs, but in the neighborhood of 400hp/400lbs-ft on pump gas, good to 6300rpm or so. Full manual 727 (trans brake awaiting install, too), Dana 20 t'case. Tom Woods (http://www.4xshaft.com) long-travel front driveshaft, stock rear, with stock leaf springs SOA at all 4 corners, reverse (rear) shackle on the front.

Beard seats, PCI helmet n' pumper. 8mm camcorder mounted in the ammo-can provides in-car footage (this is low-buck racing, folks!.. and it works pretty well!)

Pair of Fox 3" bumps up front (with an inch of up-travel before I'm into 'em), trussed axles, two Bilstein 7100 Res shocks up front, single 5125 in the back.

It's just evolved over the years. There are still a lot of reminders of my early skills and equipment problems - no fancy bent-tube shock hoops.. cut n' welded square tube and flat plate.. with the stick welder.. but they're still there, and if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

All in all, pretty low-tech, hill-billy, redneck, booty-fab, whatever you want to call it compared to any "real" Class 3.. but it's a hoot.

Sometimes I'm relegated to racing the Tuff Truck at the Monster Truck show for something to do. Other times, we haul down to Wyoming where the 4x4 club owns their own 140 acre race site and we can run on a couple mile long course for an hour (and sometimes are graced with ProTruck driver Al Hogan's presence), or I head over to Billings where someone hired a crew from Crandon to build a CORR-spec 7/8 mile (IIRC) track. Brian Hinman races his CORR/WSORR Pro2 (IIRC) with us - he and his Dad had a lot to do with the track being built.

I've always dreamed of dragging the Scout down to a SCORE race and see if I can finish, but it's never "ready", and putting in a 2" DOM legal rollcage and fuel cell never seems to get done (I bought the materials, I have the tools, I just never get around to taking it off-line long enough).

Now I have some sponsors putting together a new chassis, and it won't be Class 3 legal. It'll be close, but the 4-corner coil-overs will toss me out.

Leaf spring maintenance and R&D are not something I want to invest in - there's a proven solution out there, and it's relatively inexpensive (very inexpensive when you consider the maintenance aspect).

I built the car and raced the first season on $1500.

There's over $10k in the vehicle these days... "go-fast" IH dump-truck engines are not cheap.. and while I complained about having to spend $120 on 4 shocks when I first put it together.. now I'm running 4 remote reservoirs up front at a lot more each. :D

Montana 4x4 Association (http://www.m4x4a.org) has pictures and videos in the gallery, and more stuff on my Website, too (http://www.tmcom.com/~tsm1/postnuke)

Gotta run.. time to get my 10mo old n' head home..

[Blanco]

Not Class 3 in any way. :rolleyes:

But Damn Boy, I bet its alot of fun for the Money! :D

We west costers dont seem to have much of the Grassroots low buck racing programs out here. :(

[tsm1mt]

Not Class 3 in any way. :rolleyes:


If the fuel bill for towing far enough south to really play wasn't so much, it'd be Class 3 legal with a week's effort. New cage and a fuel cell. I think that's about it.

But I can race every event in the northwest for a full year for less than it'd run me to drive to, register, and participate in one SCORE race. Oh, and make another trip to get inspected.. I don't even need to take vacation time to race up here.

Racing doesn't *have* to be expensive.. it just usually winds up there. :D

We west costers dont seem to have much of the Grassroots low buck racing programs out here.

What happened to MDR? They're still around.. and VORRA..

[Blanco]

Whats it cost to Race your stuff?
What do you win?

[tsm1mt]

Whats it cost to Race your stuff?
What do you win?

$25-$100 entry fees.

Sometimes we just win trophies, but usually there's a formula that takes 70% of the entry fees, and then pays back the top three places.

Often times there's an even sponsor that puts up an additional purse, too.

Occasionally there's an appearance fee, too, just for showing up.

[straightaxle]

A 700 pound 400 hp IH 304 boggles my mind. That's dedication!

I sure understand the most racing for the $$$. Did circle track for about 10 years because I could keep it affordable like you do, while continuing to collect off road parts. Heck, could race a Saturday night on 5 gallons of race gas. I bet it's fun. I think the VORRA races cost about the same as your local races. but still too much for us to do VORRA and SCORE.

[tsm1mt]

A 700 pound 400 hp IH 304 boggles my mind. That's dedication!

..and it's expensive. ;) A sponsor thought it could be done, and put up about half the cost.

I keep eyeing LS1s and thinking that's the path I should be taking.. I could get two and I'd still be at about the same cost and the same weight. :)

But racing the dump-truck motor has become my "thing" and it's still fun.

I sure understand the most racing for the $$$. Did circle track for about 10 years because I could keep it affordable like you do, while continuing to collect off road parts. Heck, could race a Saturday night on 5 gallons of race gas. I bet it's fun. I think the VORRA races cost about the same as your local races. but still too much for us to do VORRA and SCORE.

Ironically, I have a few buddies giving serious consideration to selling their 4x4 racers and going roundy-round racing instead.

I sure hope they don't - I don't want to lose the competition, and since I have the space, shop, and can swing the finances, I'd probably wind up with a circle track car in my fleet, too.. but I'm trying to avoid picking up any more hobbies.

[axleater]

i gotta get the bronco going and come play with you guys!

[locopny]

i gotta get the bronco going and come play with you guys!

2 x's
gotta check out your link for info.

[AngerIssues]

I like it!!

We should head north for a race Don/Ken... my truck stays in Idaho these days anyway!!!

ken

[tsm1mt]

i gotta get the bronco going and come play with you guys!

We're racing in Acton/Billings on SUNDAY 9/16 (http://www.raceimsp.com/), and then on Saturday 10/13 we're racing in Powell, WY (http://www.m4x4a.org/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=1295) at the Powell Valley Coyotes' private race complex.

Both should be within reach of Rapid City.

I have a buddy that's been making noise about bringing his car over from Rapid to run at one or both of those.

[AngerIssues]

Can you describe what your typical race is like (number of total miles, laps, length of the course, how big are the jumps, etc?)

that would be awesome. I just might try one!!

How many races left this year? My gas money would be more than the entry fee...

[tsm1mt]

Can you describe what your typical race is like (number of total miles, laps, length of the course, how big are the jumps, etc?)

that would be awesome. I just might try one!!

How many races left this year? My gas money would be more than the entry fee...

My gas money is usually more than the entry, too. It's $1/mile round trip, and the nearest track is 60 miles.

Entry fees range from $30-$50 most of the time, once in a while someone has a "heavy metal" race with $100 entry.

Of the "Desert"-like (short-course) events, I have 3 tracks I'll speak to. (We also have 100-yard sand drags and other stuff)

One course in Cascade, MT. One in Acton (Billings), and the track in Powell, WY.

Powell is the biggest. The "Baja" course is a permanent course, I think it's 4-5 miles long. It has fast sections, some decent jumps, some tight S-turns, silty sections (but nothing like *SILT*), and a swamp section (complete with cattails). At least one good jump, but a good landing, too.

The ground is mostly alkali salt flats.

They've been racing on this track for at least 10 years that I can confirm, and more like 20 or 25, so the sections that hurt/destroy trucks have been worn down / worked over.

We typically run for time, not laps. Depending on the class(es) of trucks, we might run 15 minutes, 30 minutes, 1hr, or even 2hr. Rig that completes the most laps in the allotted time wins.

I've seen Al Hogan (ProTruck competitor) racing in Powell.

Acton/Billings - a farmer/rancher decided to build a motorsports area. Built a 1/4 mile asphalt drag strip and has drags every (other?) weekend throughout the summer.

Wanted to do some off-road racing, too, so (from the newspaper article, IIRC) he hired the guys that built the track at Crandon to come out and build a track in Billings.

IIRC it's a 7/8 mile track (no more than 1.5 miles). Mostly clay, mostly smooth (a few potholes), a couple of good jumps, but with good landings. They drive a water truck around the track and attempt to put just the right amount of water down to keep the dust down, but not make the track slick.

90+% of the course is visible from the grandstands.

Big, wide track. Brian Hinman is a CORR/WSORR (Sport-2? or Pro-2?) competitor that is involved in the track and competes regularly.

They usually have 2 or 3 heats in a day, and 8 laps per heat. I know I've been in the middle of a 9-truck starting field in Acton. Not sure how many they'll pack on the course at once.

(they also have Bump n' Run racing on an abbreviated track.. 70s 2wd A-arm cars - think Monte Carlo)

Cascade is closest to me. The course changes periodically when we feel like changing things up. Ranges from a mile to two or three in length.

One nice jump spot, a few possibles. Not as spectator friendly depending on how the course is setup. Not as "nice" as the other two tracks from a "finished" perspective, a bit rougher, but not abusive (we're almost all privateers AND work the tracks, so we don't build 'em to break 'em).

Some times we'll make the course fast and open, sometimes we'll force some turns and keep speeds down (some competitors got to thinking that 100mph might be unsafe for the rigs they'd been racing for 20+ years)

All three places hold "door to door" racing, no staggered start (sometimes we'll hold a staggered start, but it's "stock" trucks start X-wide and go, then a pause, then the "comp mod" trucks do a standing start X-wide - no 30-sec intervals per competitor).

Cascade & Powell also host solo-timed "obstacle" events on the same or similar tracks, and there are a few other obstacle tracks in western Montana, but none that run door to door. Most of the obstacle events are well under 5 minute competition times (sometimes 2x 5 minutes), which makes a long haul less appealing (IMO, anyhow).

OTOH, it's nice if you have some rookie drivers that want to get a feel for things, since you can run a single truck with five drivers and not worry about losing the race. You also get to pit between runs.

These are all sprint races compared to SCORE/BITD/etc. But, because we're all low-buck hobbyists, it's still a bit of an endurance race. The guys that run full tilt have as good of a chance of breaking as they do of winning.

2 years ago I took 2nd place in our Winter Baja (yeah, we race in the snow once a year). I had a good lead with another 5 minutes or so to go when I rolled. Someone else got their rig back together enough to make back enough laps to edge me out for 1st. I don't think 3rd place was running at the end of the race. ;)

Just the two races left this year.

They're committed to 4 races in Acton and a points series or something, but only one left and I haven't made any of the other 3 due to scheduling conflicts.

We have 2 or 3 events in Cascade, usually one in Feb, one Memorial Day, and one Labor Day, but Labor Day was canceled due to fire danger.

Powell used to have 2 or 3 a year, but the club really declined and wasn't doing anything for a long time.. the 10/13 race is the second this year. They hadn't had a race in ~5 years until this year. I'm hoping to see more next year again.

Now, for you Idaho folks - there used to be racing in Idaho, but I never see any information on current stuff, so keep me informed. :)

(I have video from all three venues, and a bunch of pictures - I'll see about getting some up on YouTube soon and add some links, otherwise you can wander through the M4x4A (http://www.m4x4a.org) Galleries under Frontier, or My Galleries (http://www.tmcom.com/~tsm1/postnuke))