New guy in Cali

[DraVen]

I have been building my Suzuki Samurai for about a year now and it looks like class 3 would be the class I am built for. i do have a question.
in class 3 so i have to keep me factory motor? as in can i swap a v6 in and get rid of my 1.3L 4 banger?

[BajaBronco13]

Welcome Dravan,

You have to use any factory motor that was available in a Sammy. I'm not sure if they ever came with a six banger. Post some pics of your Sammy. Those are fun little rigs. Cam the guy that owes this site has a nice Suzuki S.

Chris

[Blanco]

There has been a few Sammy Class 3 racers...

I dont remember where on www.TheWebWheeler.com I posted them But I do have the pics on there some where.

Petro works was behind the Race Sammys. :)

I dont know the wheelbase of the LWB sammys.....
Those might be better bet as racer.

But then again I think SCORE rukes state they must of been available in the USA.
& the LWB Sammys never where... :o

So as cool as I think it would be to see another Sammy racing again & I promise you to personally web the crap out of its efforts...
I dont know if it would be very competetive? :confused:

Oh & heres some Pics of my Sammy action this past Sunday. :D
http://www.thewebwheeler.com/forums/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=2980
I love Mudding my Sammy.

[DraVen]

and another question.. the "track width" does that mean i have to run axles the same width as stock?

ether way this sammi will hit the desert of baja by 2010

[Blanco]

and another question.. the "track width" does that mean i have to run axles the same width as stock?

Your allowed to go 2inches per side, 4 inches overall wider than stock.

[DraVen]

Differentials
Rear differentials is open but must remain stock concept. Gear ratio, carriers, axles & floating hubs are optional.
Front differential must be a production automotive type but axle tubes may be replaced.

so. does this mean i can not get an axle and shorten it to my need width?

i have a few axles and i wanted to use them and shorten them. but it sound like i wont be able to?

and also. "same block casting? does that mean?

sorry for the noob questions

[Blanco]

Basically the way I see it....
Your allowed any engine that was ever offered in a Suzuki Samurai.

As far as axles, I'm assuming that you can run Toyotas or what ever as long as its the same concept in suspension design.
In other words you must remain Straight axles front & rear as the original manufactuerer had intended.

If I'm right about that.
I'd Go full floater Toys. :D
I'd doubt you'd ever have axle problems with that set up.

[roczuk]

i'm interested to see how this project plays out. any updates?

[wiley-moeracing]

Are you sure you want to race this truck?? It is a great little trail rig( i like them) but it would be suicide to try and race, but don't let that stop you, it would be cool to shock the crap out of us. Build this rig and make the most out of the rules and grey areas and race it( does not need to be the fastest rig out there and use the benefits of the rig like fuel mileage and ruggedness and go for it. you never know till you try!! good luck and keep us informed Thanks tim

[AngerIssues]

Are you sure you want to race this truck?? It is a great little trail rig( i like them) but it would be suicide to try and race, but don't let that stop you, it would be cool to shock the crap out of us. Build this rig and make the most out of the rules and grey areas and race it( does not need to be the fastest rig out there and use the benefits of the rig like fuel mileage and ruggedness and go for it. you never know till you try!! good luck and keep us informed Thanks tim


And to throw a little more fuel on your fire... generally speaking... because we ALL enjoy competition, and most promoters let the class "police" themselves. Nobody is going to pitch a fit if you show up with a rig that stretches the rules just a bit - especially one like a sammy. Some promoters require a cash posting to "protest". If you lose, they keep the cash - if you win, you get the cash back. It's a great rule because it keeps people from throwing a fit about nothing just to see how it works out.

If you have the balls to bring that out and race, like Tim says - take advantage of the light weight and the mpg... if anyone in C3 protests, I will invade their camp at night with TP and blow-up dolls. They will wake to a surprise!

I hope you do hit the dirt in '10. I've never personally passed a sammy during a race, but I've also never been passed by one!! (wait a sec - I've never raced against one!!) :D

BTW - my dad has two. I think they are great!

[Blanco]

& I also personally Love Suzuki Samurais, & I am currently building one that seems to getting out of control.. :o

[wiley-moeracing]

I WANT TO SEE SOME PICTURES PLEASE!!! I love different/oddball rigs(hence my old cherokee)and hurry up!! Thanks tim

[DraVen]

ok here is the Sami at the moment. i had to make it a roller real quick so we could demo our old house, so here it is and our 2 "chase trucks"

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa113/dravenwest/002.jpg
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa113/dravenwest/003.jpg
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa113/dravenwest/004.jpg
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa113/dravenwest/005.jpg

P.S. I miss my FSJ Cherokee

[roczuk]

cool. thanks for the pics.

so when do you plan on starting these projects?

[BajaBronco13]

Draven,

Looking forward to your build. Though I have to ask you, any reason you are not going with the Cheerokee for your Class 3 build? The JeepSpeed crowd has done a lot for those vehicles with regards to the aftermarket world.

Chris

[DraVen]

i dont like the jeepspeed rules. like the lift kits have to be readlly available and i like making my own parts. like later on down the road i am going to put EB style radius arm front and rear. plus the XJ is my DD at the moment. I was looking at a 1980 FSJ cherokee yesterday no motor and he wants $500 for it. it looked like a nice class3 type of rig. but the tuff part of the build for me will be getting a cage done. not many cage shops up here is Sac.

[BajaBronco13]

Draven,

Check out Pirate4x4.com. There is actually a few shops in the Sacramento area. Run a search for fabrication shops and I'm sure you'll find a place near you.

Chris

[straightaxle]

I thought the weeds and fences looked familiar, I have the same thing in my back yard in Sacramento! I missed that detail, what part of town? Like was mentioned before, the Cherokee might make a better class 3 starting point. Just build it to Class 3, not Jeepspeed rules, and you are already ahead with a pretty decent wheelbase and something you can use coil overs on.

[DraVen]

lol i am in natomas so thats north sac. i had though about building my XJ but i dont want to do the wiring to do an engine swap to get rid of the 2.8l v6 thats in it. I mean if i could put the 5.2l mopar 318 i have sitting around in it then cool hell yes.

P.S. i just saw that i have a little nick name under my sceen name the funny thing is i didnt put that on there...

[roczuk]

mod put it there.

[3amigo]

your 2.8 is a GM motor so throw a 4.3, or better yet an odd fire busch motor in it. That would spice it up a little. A carbed 4.3 would be an easy swap.

[roczuk]

or just be different and make the first baja sammy!

[DraVen]

what class would i be put in if i ran a V6 in my Sammi?

[roczuk]

I don't know anything about racing so I can't answer that. I'm a sammy guy so I was forwarded this thread. I'm sure many guys on here will tell you which class you should enter in. If you need help on the sammy build I can help you out.

[DraVen]

Suspension parts may be strengthened, reinforced, or replaced, but stock track width (4" must be retained. Suspension must retain the original design & concept (A-Arm, MacPherson Strut, I-Beam etc.) & all primary spring systems must retain the original concept ( Leaf, Torsion Bar, Coil, etc.)

so does this mean 4" each side or. 4" wider only (2" each side)

[Blanco]

or just be different and make the first baja sammy!
There already been Baja racing Sammys.
http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/322390/fullsize/bajanorm1.jpg
what class would i be put in if i ran a V6 in my Sammi?
Probably Sportsman.

so does this mean 4" each side or. 4" wider only (2" each side)

4" total.
2" per side.

[roczuk]

pretty cool looking baja sammy.

in the case of the rules, adding some toyota axles or narrowed Dana axles with some deavers and some resevoir shocks would probably do the trick.

Cam: does the rules state that the wheelbase stay the same or can it be extended?

If it has to stay the same then I would almost say no to a baja sammy build as the stock wheelbase is only 79.9" which wouldn't work well in the high speed stuff.

[Blanco]

Here's the rules I've posted so far. ( sorry its not complete, Its a pain reading & typing it out. No copy & paste :o )
http://www.class3racing.com/showthread.php?t=1

Wheelbase must retain +/- 2" as long as it does not exceed 108".

[roczuk]

Wheelbase must retain +/- 2" as long as it does not exceed 108".

I don't think that will take the high speed stuff well. Might just do well against the class eleven guys though. hahahaha

[Blanco]

Yeah thats everyones point.
He would be different than the others but not very competitive. http://www.thewebwheeler.com/forums/images/smilies/m2c.gif
But heck why not run sportsman with basically unlimited rules. :confused:
strech it & widen it & give it V6 power etc etc.
That would be http://www.thewebwheeler.com/forums/images/smilies/awesome_dude.gif

[DraVen]

ok would either of these be legal for me to use?
http://www.zuksoffroad.net/samurai_engine.htm
or could i make my own side draft type of carb set up and run it?.
also the LWB Samurai was avalible in canada and i have seen quite a few LWB sammi's here in the states, could i lengthen my wheel base to those specs and still be legal?

what is "sportsman"?

[Blanco]

You know I never thought about a LWB? http://www.thewebwheeler.com/forums/images/smilies/humm_smilie.gif
That might be a great idea?

whats its WB?
But I dont think it would be legal in SCORE due to this.
http://www.class3racing.com/showpost.php?p=1&postcount=1

& if your gonna run FI, you must retain the stock FI.
You really need to go read what I spent days posting. :rolleyes:
http://www.class3racing.com/showpost.php?p=6474&postcount=6

[DraVen]

lol sorry but i have read that whole post about 4 times and i wasnt talking about the FI on that page but the Side draft carb set up, and there is another set up out there that run 4 Suzuki GXSR Bike carbs or Harley Carbs. so that was an idea.

and lets see an LWB Sammi is.. if i remember its around 104 or so

is the someone at SCORE i can call to clearify this?

[Blanco]

Yeah you need to call Bill Savage, SCORE tech.
I dont have his number handy & I dont wanna Visit SCORE's site its still suspect for Virus'es. :(
I'm sure some here has it though.

But being ( I dont think ) the Samurai LWB was ever sold here in number above 5000.
Seems to eliminate it. :confused:
But does make for an interesting way to race a Sammy.
still seems a bit narrow to be stable though.

you could put Toy axles under it & some Deavers & some good shocks & go.

[fj40]

what is "sportsman"?

Also nown as class 15, its a "OPEN TRUCK" class, some of the rigs racing in it are a just a few bolts short of a trophy truck.

[Blanco]

Also nown as class 15, its a "OPEN TRUCK" class, some of the rigs racing in it are a just a few bolts short of a trophy truck.

Then again some are basically a class 11.

& I thought it was class 1400 & 1450?
maybe thats our local races? :confused:

[DraVen]

hell from the loojs of it i might be able to run Toyota axles either.

Samurai WMS - WMS
Front 52.5"
Rear 52.2"

Toyota WMS - WMS
1979-85 front 55.5"
1979-85 rear 55"
86-95 rear 58"

and the deavers do i call and ask if they make Sammi springs?

[roczuk]

sounds like my sammy. maybe I should build it with higher speed stuff in mind. hhmmmmm....

[Blanco]

hell from the loojs of it i might be able to run Toyota axles either.

Samurai WMS - WMS
Front 52.5"
Rear 52.2"

Toyota WMS - WMS
1979-85 front 55.5"
1979-85 rear 55"
86-95 rear 58"

and the deavers do i call and ask if they make Sammi springs?
Toys would be fine as long as your keep them in the limits of the rules..

I dont know who told you building a racer is easy. :rolleyes:

[DraVen]

i knew it wouldnt be easy..

so they wont through a fit if i am about an inch than the 2in per side limit?

either way i am sticking to class 3.. i have already ordered engine parts for my build and it will bump it up a bit from the stock 64HP...

[Blanco]

My Sammy is basically a Rock Crawler/Mud Bogger.
& its about to move up to 38+ inch tires.
So I do see a power upgade in my near future. :)

[DraVen]

ok it looks like i wont be building my Sammi for Class 3. but i will build my XJ.
what type of things should my cage consist of? give me pics and such i am using 2in dom like what is required by score for 4000+# vechilces so i just need design ideas

[Blanco]

As a Sammy Guy I hate to say it....
But thats a smart move!
You'd never be competitive in a Sammy. :rolleyes:

[DraVen]

yea i realize that.. so i am still going to build my sami but build it down..
v8/auto/2wd/chop top.

but back to my racer build, i would like to build a radius arm type of link suspention for the front can i do that and if i can how can i?

[Blanco]

Your Jeep already has radius arms & coils up front right?
Assuming so, there should be no issues doing the front end.

I'm not sure what your asking? http://www.thewebwheeler.com/forums/images/smilies/6.gif

[DraVen]

ok i have basicly a 4link front end and i want something like EB radus arms

i dont want upper control arms and lower control arm i just want an arm for each side

[BajaBronco13]

Check out some of the recent back issues of JP magazine. They have a 10 Day build up of a JeepSpeed XJ. There will be some changes because of the Class 3 rules but it was an interesting article and give some really cool insight about their Jeep build.

Chris

[DraVen]

OK well i finally got rid of my XJ and now I am building a 1973 jeep Wagoneer for this dream...wish me luck..

[roczuk]

Draven, can you list out your plans for the Wagoneer?

also, since you have the sammy; why don't you just 4 wheel it.

[Blanco]

Draven, can you list out your plans for the Wagoneer?

also, since you have the sammy; why don't you just 4 wheel it.

Give him a link to your Build Tristan. :)

[roczuk]

said link

http://thewebwheeler.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3258

Cam, what do the rules state regarding motor used?

[Blanco]

said link

http://thewebwheeler.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3258

Cam, what do the rules state regarding motor used?

No you cant race your Sammy with a Chevy V-6. :rolleyes:
http://www.class3racing.com/showpost.php?p=6474&postcount=6

[roczuk]

ah....

[DraVen]

lets see my plans are swap the dana 27 out of the front with my dodge dana 44 spring over the rear shackle reverse the front swat th QT tcase with a dana 20 rip out the smog stuff (its a 73 so no smog) dual exhast, and keep it all street legal at the same time.

[DraVen]

what would be better to run SOA or SUA? for offraod racing

[Dave G]

what would be better to run SOA or SUA? for offraod racing

The general consensus is that the longer springs afforded by SUA is better, BUT..... you will give up a LOT of ground clearance when you try to fit an 11 or 12 leaf pack under the axle! I think it's better to move your spring mounts to get a longer leaf!

[3amigo]

Here is what I have right now. I am soa and am using the 64" chevy 1500 springs. you can mix and match these springs to get the right spring rate. When at a later date I have some money to spend on upgrades I will call Deaver and order up a set of race springs and go sua. This is going to allow me to actually get out there and race because for me when I price Deavers all I see is a fuel cell and seats. The chevy springs can give a reliable 16" of travel, and they cost $50.

To really answer you question. The best would be 64" Deavers spring under.

[DraVen]

ok here is a rule question a friend has a XJ the he wants to build for class 3 and i have my AMC 360/400/QT out of my old wagoneer. since it is from the same manufacture as the xj can the engine be use and class legal? i mean the grand cherokee has a 5.2 V8 and this is a factory jeep v8 will it be ok?

[straightaxle]

I would consider that it was OK based on the conference call we had with SCORE several years ago. At that time the question was on the Kia that had a V6. At that time the original Sportage did not come with one, but did later. I seem to recall that we said that if it came from Kia, it was legal. Should go the same with a Jeep.

[3amigo]

I don't think so. The xj has never been offered with a v8. Putting a v8 in an xj would be in violation of the rules as far as I can see. A zj is not an xj.

The kia is a different deal. A v6 was offered in the sportage at some point.

[straightaxle]

I have to plead ignorance on my knowledge of Jeeps. I don't know what came in an X/Y/WJ. You're right, that was the arguement on the Kia, they did come with the V6 on the later Sportage. As far as I am concerned, you could put an Allison V-12 in there and the wheelbase and weight are still going to equalize the vehicles in the class. With the highway speed limits, and as rough as the courses are these days, there just isn't anywhere to use the power.

[3amigo]

I agree with you about it not really being an advantage.

When Raffo wanted to run coil-overs the response from many was that the class would go to hell and the sky was falling because it was against the rules.

If we are going to stick to the rules, we need to stick to the rules.

Now get back out to the barn and get that black beauty prepped!

[DraVen]

Hey all long time no post.... well life has thrown a few cerve balls my way so things came up... just to give yall a heads up.. my girlfriend had a 90 Bronco at her parents house and give it to me and said she wants "US" to build it for class 3 at first I thought she was joking. but when her dad brought it over on the trailer i realized she wasnt. so that was about a month ago. now i have that and a parts 93 bronce in the back yard. the 90 had a blown 302 and i dont know what trans/tcase the 93 has a 351/4speed auto no OD/?? tcase that all run(it got rear ended). now the questions come in. can i put the TTB from a f250 in the front and have it be stronger that what is in it now?? btw the 90 is the one being built. to be honest i dont know **** about broncos..

[roczuk]

that swap WILL work. i use to know a guy that did that as his bronco had a D44 TTB in it and wanted beefier stuff.

I really don't think it's worth it though unless the '90 bronco has D44 TTB. You'll only be strengthening it just alittle with alot of work to do it. F250 TTB should be D50 stuff which means the R&P are alittle bigger and the outers are pretty much Dana 60 stuff.

You'll have to make spring retainers for the F250 TTB beams as they are generally leaf sprung.

If the 90 Bronco has D50 stuff then leave it alone and strengthen it. Plenty of threads out there on gusseting the TTB's.

-Tristan

[Blanco]

Whats the width of the D50?
Is it wider than a D44?

[roczuk]

no it's not wider from the bronco's.

f250 TTB or Solid WMS is 69"

Full Size Bronco Front TTB WMS is 67"

[Blanco]

no it's not wider from the bronco's.

f250 TTB or Solid WMS is 69"

Full Size Bronco Front TTB WMS is 58"
:confused: Looks as if your saying its 11" wider than a full size Bronco?

[roczuk]

:confused: Looks as if your saying its 11" wider than a full size Bronco?

fixed it.

it's only 2-2.5" wider.

58" is Early Bronco Solid Axle.

[DraVen]

quick tech question. how do i adjust the caster on these things? the front wheels and not centerd and set back a bit?..

heres a pics of what i am talking about... and yes i have a lot of work to go.. i know..
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa113/dravenwest/100_8420.jpg
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa113/dravenwest/100_8421.jpg
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa113/dravenwest/100_8422.jpg

i since i got the motor swaped out my g/f wanted to take it for a spin..
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa113/dravenwest/100_8413.jpg
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa113/dravenwest/100_8414.jpg

[DraVen]

ok.... i just read the rule again.... and what do the rules say about the chassis?...my dad is giving me a 73 f150 4x2 and the body is rough and i was thinking of grafting a FSB chassis front half and give it TTB... and then a FSB body... would that be class legal? so i could that a cali smog-go-F***- your self bronco.....