Steering Box

[convoy]

Is anyone racing on the stock three bolt style oem power steering box on a Bronco or F150?

BTW: HOWE upgraded version, where they take your core and rebuilt it with better parts costs $675. They recommend upgrading the pump as well.

This is for a 91 Bronco.
I

[RelentlessPursuitRacing]

Is anyone racing on the stock three bolt style oem power steering box on a Bronco or F150?

BTW: HOWE upgraded version, where they take your core and rebuilt it with better parts costs $675. They recommend upgrading the pump as well.

This is for a 91 Bronco.
I


That's some big money! I'd like to know exactly what they are doing to it to warrant a $675 bill. I will be running a swing set steering set up on my '96 which will take a lot of stress off the box. I haven't done enough research or made a decission yet on what type of rebuilt I am going to do, but I am pretty sure I will be using the stock box to start with. Of course it will have a quality rebuild, but not sure what company. I want it to be the best possible, but are they really doing anything more than another high quality company that may not be as well known? Keep us posted. Thanks. Jerry

[convoy]

Ya I guess it's a lot of money?



Time to step up if you want to play with the big boys :D

[RelentlessPursuitRacing]

Ya I guess it's a lot of money?
Time to step up if you want to play with the big boys :D

I don't mind spending the big money if it is worth it. I just want to know what they are doing to the box to warrant the big money. I have a good, reputable builder locally, but if the Howe is that much better for some reason or they are doing something kick ass that my builder can't do, then I will drop the big money on the Howe.

[BajaBronco13]

Convoy, some time ago I looked at the AGR boxes and they were in the 500.00 buck range. They had a version that was specific to race trucks and crawlers. I'd check them out.

CP

[convoy]

Baja,
Nice truck...If I'm spending 500 for AGR crap might as well get HOWE.


What are the class 3 guys running, since this is site is specifically for class 3 racers and enthusiasts.

[straightaxle]

Talk to Cliff at Unique Metal Products in Santee. They were less to modify than the amounts mentioned above, starting with a good core. There is some machine work required to make the Ford box bullet proof. They can modify them to run a ram, we have never needed one.

[Blanco]

http://www.uniquemetalproducts.com/

[RelentlessPursuitRacing]

http://www.uniquemetalproducts.com/

Now those prices seem much more reasonable. Is that who rebuilt yours, Don. Thanks.

[convoy]

The one Blanco linked to was in Oceanside? Is Cliff in OS?

If so it's about 20 minutes down the road..

[BajaBronco13]

Thanks Convoy.

Let us know what you end up getting. I think a beefed up steering box will be in my build up in the future. Right now I'm just trying to get this project down to Rodd Fantelli to start my build up.

CP

[Blanco]

Right now I'm just trying to get this project down to Rodd Fantelli to start my build up.

When do you think you'll get it down there? :confused:

I'm gonna be heading down there myself once I gather enough parts & AutoFab gets my fenders made. :cool:

[BajaBronco13]

Hey Cam,

The game plan is to have my Bronco towed down the end of next month and have the front and rear done. Here is my build up list.

Front:
2.5 King Coilovers, king bumps, Fantelli radius arms and beams with heims, beard limited straps, king bypass, engine cage and all those other odds and ends.

Rear:
Deaver springs, Autofab style two link set up with King bypass shocks and bumps.

At first I thought about handling the front and then dealing with the rear end later but I just want to get my rig out on the dirt so I think I'll bite the bullet and make it happen all at once. Though my Jeep CJ has been receiving way too much attention lately and the Bronco budget is shrinking.

Does my wife have access to this site?????? :rolleyes:

[straightaxle]

Guess its been a while, the second line right under their name on the web site says "WE'VE MOVED". I have had three done there, even though we've never broke one.

[AngerIssues]

Well guys, I've been running OEM steering boxes on the 85 since 2001... other than occasional leaky (OEM) p/s pumps and rebuilding the steering geerbox occasionally, we have never had a steering problem.

Bent and broke a few tie-rods, mostly do to camber issues before I fixed that problem (see avatar).

Anyway, we follow the "if it aint broke, don't fix it" mentality. Guess I'm lucky in that my dad can rebuild the steering boxes, and there is no shortage of used ones in Idaho.

ken

[Salttoy]

Don, do you know what they did to modify your PS box at Unique Metal Products? - Gary

[straightaxle]

Yes, I do.

[Blanco]

Yes, I do.

:rolleyes: Ok, so will you share that info with us?

[straightaxle]

:rolleyes: Ok, so will you share that info with us?


At the risk of AngerIssue Ken reminding me that I wasted my money........

UMP goes through and checks all the components in the steering box, then they machine off the original cast input shaft retainer and replace it with a billet piece. Like I said, they can also add ports for an external ram if you want them.

Remember, these steering boxes, that at least we are using, are going on 30 years old, with who knows what kind of abuse. My race truck had evidence of accident damage bad enough to replace a stock radius arm and bracket before I got it, so I needed some added peace of mind. Something to think about when you are going down the Goat Trail or down out of the back side of Mike's, it's nice to have steering that doesn't go away at the wrong time.

By the way, just kidding Ken!!!!!!!!

[fj40]

Do you guy run oil coolers in your power stearing sistem?

[retroblazer]

Personally, I use Tom Lee. He's been around forever and is a bit more reasonable than Howe. I run both a powersteering cooler and filter.

[BajaBronco13]

What the...... Tommy Lee is into Class 3 rigs now? First Pam Anderson, now off roading. Man that guy gets around.

I know, I'm an idiot. :rolleyes:

CP

[Blanco]

I know, I'm an idiot. :rolleyes:


http://www.thewebwheeler.com/forums/images/smilies/20.gif

[straightaxle]

Do you guy run oil coolers in your power stearing sistem?

Yes, you need a cooler. We originally had one that was too small, and it would overheat during the summer races. When they overheat, all of the power assist goes away, and you literally can not hold on to the steering wheel. We switched to the equivalent of a single large transmission cooler, and have not had a problem since.

[Yikes]

What steering ratio do you guys run? Anger Issues - are you using a multiplier or the factory ratio? The reason I ask is I need to replace/rebuild my box and was going to send it to UMP for upgrades. They offer quite a range of ratios. Thanks

[retroblazer]

What steering ratio do you guys run? Anger Issues - are you using a multiplier or the factory ratio? The reason I ask is I need to replace/rebuild my box and was going to send it to UMP for upgrades. They offer quite a range of ratios. Thanks

The boxes that I get from Lee are a variable ratio between 14-16 to 1. A lot of guys use quickeners, but I haven't felt the need on a consistant basis to warrant putting one in the truck.

[convoy]

We'll I've left the gear box alone for now, since it appears not to be the cause of my problems. After I pulled the engine I could see the steering shaft a lot better and noticed the collapsible shaft is very loose where it slides into each other. Should I get ride of the sliding shaft in place of a solid shaft.. But this could be very dangerous on impact??

What have people done to the "stock configuration" to eliminate the slop in the steering shaft that would hold up to 35" tires. Race guys don't have this slip shaft anymore, but what about some of us stock setup guys.

I've looked at Borgesson... but I would like to hear better ideas.

[straightaxle]

We'll I've left the gear box alone for now, since it appears not to be the cause of my problems. After I pulled the engine I could see the steering shaft a lot better and noticed the collapsible shaft is very loose where it slides into each other. Should I get ride of the sliding shaft in place of a solid shaft.. But this could be very dangerous on impact??

What have people done to the "stock configuration" to eliminate the slop in the steering shaft that would hold up to 35" tires. Race guys don't have this slip shaft anymore, but what about some of us stock setup guys.

I've looked at Borgesson... but I would like to hear better ideas.

I would recommend keeping a slip joint in the shaft. We used a slip joint out of a standard (gasp) Chevy pickup, with race type steering u-joints in place of the rag joint, etc. All of the tube diameters matched up nicely with the weld on u-joints. There should be a joint available that will match the input spline on your steering box, with a weld joint on the other end. Look in the circle track vendor stuff for more variety, like Speedway or Coleman.

[RelentlessPursuitRacing]

The boxes that I get from Lee are a variable ratio between 14-16 to 1. A lot of guys use quickeners, but I haven't felt the need on a consistant basis to warrant putting one in the truck.

Chris, are you sure it's 14 or 16 to 1? That seems huge. Stock early Bronco's were about 5.5 to 1 and 4 to 1 depending on the year. Are we measuring differently? I know the EB boxes when they say 5.5 to 1, it means it is 5.5 turns from lock to lock on the steernig wheel. Where are you getting the 14 to 1 or 16 to 1?

[retroblazer]

Chris, are you sure it's 14 or 16 to 1? That seems huge. Stock early Bronco's were about 5.5 to 1 and 4 to 1 depending on the year. Are we measuring differently? I know the EB boxes when they say 5.5 to 1, it means it is 5.5 turns from lock to lock on the steernig wheel. Where are you getting the 14 to 1 or 16 to 1?

Lock to lock, which is what you are refering to is different than the ratio of the box.

[Moss2]

Chris, are you sure it's 14 or 16 to 1? That seems huge. Stock early Bronco's were about 5.5 to 1 and 4 to 1 depending on the year. Are we measuring differently? I know the EB boxes when they say 5.5 to 1, it means it is 5.5 turns from lock to lock on the steernig wheel. Where are you getting the 14 to 1 or 16 to 1?

I think the numbers Chris is using is the actual gear ratio. You are using turns between stops. If it is 4 turns stop to stop your sector shaft is not turning 1 revolution. It turns more like 1/4 turn or less. 1/4 turn would give you 16:1 gear ratio at 4 turns lock to lock. I really like the quickener in the dirt. On the highway it feels a little odd.

[straightaxle]

The 14 or 16 refers to the ratio of input turns to output turns. Kinda hard to measure it that way! Lower number is a faster box.

[Gummi Bear]

Just how asymetric are the arms on a BB?

I've always wanted to put a power rack and pinion on a TTB, but I haven't been ambitious enough to really take the time to draw it up and take measurements, and sort out a mounting system. I figure if they can get enough travel out of their steering linkage on a TT, surely someone could make one work on a class 3 vehicle. They work awesome on IFS systems where the pumpkin is fixed, I just wonder if you could find the virtual 'center' on a TTB, and adapt one to work.

You'd be able to eliminate quite a few of the failure prone pieces with a R&P system.


BTW - $675 to rebuild a box is obscene, and as nice as the folks at AGR seem to be, they're just not building a product up to this kind of abuse, IMO.